So... is anyone else coming around?

[AWizardInDallas]

No, I'm still a so-called grognard.

 

[Agamon]

4e announcement at Gencon:

Classes & Races Leaks:

Latest posts by Mearls:

For me:

4E announcment at GenCon:

2 days later: :\

5 days later:

Classes and Races leaks:

Mearls:

 

[Pinotage]

I was getting quite down on 4e. Then I played 3.5 again - 3 hour combats, totally unbalanced levels of power between core classes and classes from later books, completely broken feats, etc., etc. 4e can't get here soon enough IMO. I'll take any game simpler than 3.5 at this point. It's just that I have a MUCH better chance of getting my group to try 4e than any other game. If that sucks, it's back to the drawing board.

A couple of questions.

1) I've not played 3.5e over the table. Or 3e for that matter. I only game by PbP. What's the hold-up? I don't understand how it can possibly take that long to get a 10 round combat done? In PbP games I'm in I can easily type an action, roll the dice, and post a responce in a few minutes. It doesn't take long to decide on an action or execute it. I've heard people complain about this before, but not playing over the table, never quite understood it.

2) What makes you think 4e is going to be a) simpler and b) not have broken feats or unbalanced classes? I'm sure the 3e designers thought 3e was perfect when it hit the shelves. See, 4e is design from the ground up. It's a new system (despite the d20 still being the core mechanic) and it's going to have new system flaws. My guess is 4e is going to be as balanced as 3e was when it came out.

Pinotage

 

[mhensley]

For me:

4E announcment at GenCon:

2 days later: :\

5 days later:

Classes and Races leaks:

Mearls:

After the Bulette article, I'm back up to

 

[mhensley]

1) I've not played 3.5e over the table. Or 3e for that matter. I only game by PbP. What's the hold-up? I don't understand how it can possibly take that long to get a 10 round combat done? In PbP games I'm in I can easily type an action, roll the dice, and post a responce in a few minutes. It doesn't take long to decide on an action or execute it. I've heard people complain about this before, but not playing over the table, never quite understood it.

Part of it is the DM, part of it is the players. The DM in question liked to set up pretty much every fight to be a CR +5, knockdown, dragout, to the death, brawl. I don't know how much that was him and how much was the module (Return to Ravenloft). Some of the players slowed down things by powergaming their characters to the max by cherrypicking feats from a dozen different sources to the effect that neither the player nor the dm was very familiar with the rules for that character. This caused a lot of rule arguments and slower play.

2) What makes you think 4e is going to be a) simpler and b) not have broken feats or unbalanced classes? I'm sure the 3e designers thought 3e was perfect when it hit the shelves. See, 4e is design from the ground up. It's a new system (despite the d20 still being the core mechanic) and it's going to have new system flaws. My guess is 4e is going to be as balanced as 3e was when it came out.

The core of 3.x is fine and I have no problems with it. Unfortunately I play with a bunch of powergamers who think the core is too limiting. 4e is my best excuse to get them back to a core only game. And I do think 4e will be easier to run. The 4e stat card for the spined devil shows me concrete evidence that the game will be simpler.

 

[Pinotage]

The core of 3.x is fine and I have no problems with it. Unfortunately I play with a bunch of powergamers who think the core is too limiting. 4e is my best excuse to get them back to a core only game. And I do think 4e will be easier to run. The 4e stat card for the spined devil shows me concrete evidence that the game will be simpler.

The stat block might be easier, but it seems there are the same number of things to keep track of. That dragon encounter write-up a while back indicated a huge amount of immediate actions. Or even the recent warlock tidbit which says its abilities are more effective against already cursed creatures. Seems like while the underlying mechanics may be simpler (i.e. preparation is shorter), I'm not sure combat is going to be any shorter.

The thing that concerns me, as a PbP player only, is that those immediate actions are going to kill playing by post or online games. It's a right pain to have to adjudicate those.

Pinotage

 

[Mr Jack]

IME, the main thing that slows 3rd ed combats down is the inconsistent nature of the spells and feats. Much of the time somebody needs to look something up because of some subtle detail. A more consistent game will help with this.

 

[Li Shenron]

IME, the main thing that slows 3rd ed combats down is the inconsistent nature of the spells and feats. Much of the time somebody needs to look something up because of some subtle detail. A more consistent game will help with this.

This problem is exacerbated by people who pretend to start playing totally new character at high levels (or otherwise to level up at the speed of light) and believe they are going to be good at it. Then they find they cannot keep up with all their PC option, and blame it on the rules.

 

[Darkwolf71]

This problem is exacerbated by people who pretend to start playing totally new character at high levels (or otherwise to level up at the speed of light) and believe they are going to be good at it. Then they find they cannot keep up with all their PC option, and blame it on the rules.

QFE.

Huge difference between gaining a single new feat, maybe a class feature or two and a handful of spells and jumping in with a character with 5 brand new feats, a dozen new class abilities, and a handful of levels worth of spells.

 

[The_Gneech]

With a new goodie at every level, is that really going to change in any way?

-The Gneech