So is Dragon magazine becoming upcoming ads?

garyh

First Post
Whoah, perhaps... but then again that's subjective and not objectively measurable.

I subscribed to Dragon for the entire 3.0/3.5 run. I've USED way more Dragon material in 4e since it's in the Character Builder and Compendium. It's just SO much easier than remember what issue had that one article... then once you find it, having to make sure you have access to that issue whenever what you took from it comes up.
 

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When I look at the calendar, I'm always dismayed that there seem to be so few articles and that a lot of them, like the OP said, are just previews of upcoming books.

HOWEVER, when a preview article posts, I can guarantee that I'm more excited about it than other articles. So I don't want to like the preview content so much, but I can't help it. ;)

Plus, just my impressions, but it feels like the preview articles are typically the ones that generate the most discussion and interest. But I could be selectively reading boards like this. *shrug*

Either way, I'm content with the non-magazine content alone being worth the subscription price for me. I wouldn't mind more meat (especially a 3rd full adventure in Dragon each month!! And more short variety articles - even only 2-3 pages - in Dragon), but I still feel it is worth the money.
 

Cadfan

First Post
He actually stated a legitimate concern.
A legitimate concern, but a poor solution. If you're worried that page count doesn't accurately reflect value, its really unclear why you'd choose an article count as a replacement. Wouldn't you expect that to exacerbate the inaccuracy rather than repair it?

I seem to recall the second half of the typical print Dragon magazine being dominated by a series of articles, often one or two page spreads, that recurred every month. I seem to recall a dearth of lengthy articles of a dozen or more pages. 4e uses a clearly different approach, instead relying on a small number of long flagship articles, augmented by one or more podcasts that cover some of the material that used to be in article form (ask wizards, mailbag). The Gladiator article, the one where I first stepped back and was really shocked at the change in style in online publication, was 14 pages with almost no art after the cover page. Just solid text and stat blocks. I don't recall that sort of thing occuring on a monthly basis in the print magazine. I remember six pages or so as being pretty beefy. Are my recollections wrong?
 

darjr

I crit!
I know preview articles are not playtest articles... but there is an element of a heads up to WotC about them. I dunno what they can change (yes I know they have said 'nothing') but a preview seems like a chance at a mulligan.
 

alleynbard

First Post
A legitimate concern, but a poor solution. If you're worried that page count doesn't accurately reflect value, its really unclear why you'd choose an article count as a replacement. Wouldn't you expect that to exacerbate the inaccuracy rather than repair it?

Actually, I specifically said page count would be a fine standard, but not all by itself. it doesn't denote value in any way. If you notice I listed a number of categories I thought would be important to make a comparison. Of course, other categories could be presented or removed. So, what do you think? Is there a category you would like to see in addition to page count. Do you actually have an opinion on what can and can't be done to make the comparison more accurate or are you here to just tell everyone how wrong they are?

Cadfan said:
I seem to recall the second half of the typical print Dragon magazine being dominated by a series of articles, often one or two page spreads, that recurred every month. I seem to recall a dearth of lengthy articles of a dozen or more pages. 4e uses a clearly different approach, instead relying on a small number of long flagship articles, augmented by one or more podcasts that cover some of the material that used to be in article form (ask wizards, mailbag). The Gladiator article, the one where I first stepped back and was really shocked at the change in style in online publication, was 14 pages with almost no art after the cover page. Just solid text and stat blocks. I don't recall that sort of thing occuring on a monthly basis in the print magazine. I remember six pages or so as being pretty beefy. Are my recollections wrong?

What a waste and all to convince me you are right. And yet, I already agreed with part of what you were saying. I didn't think using page counts or article counting alone could bring about an answer. But to answer your question, your recollection is not wrong.

Simply put, I tried to state that a number of conditions would be needed to make any kind of comparison. One of those conditions was page count. And, actually, Merric brought a better point concerning word count. Ultimately, most comparisons are doomed to failure because the formats are so different. But I did think there was value in making suggestions on said conditions of comparisons. And if there is a way to do it accurately, I wouldn't mind seeing it as I was starting to get the same perception as well. I don't mind being proven wrong.

And I don't think I was particularly rude in my original post either. I feel pretty short right now though. You jumped to conclusions about my point and assumed I was somehow contradicting you completely. I only disagreed about a minor issue on the subject. Well, there you go. You are right. Page count could be helpful. Feel better now?

Edit: If I am reading you wrong and you didn't mean to be rude, I apologize. But this really gets up my nose and I am feeling rude as a result. I was trying to help both sides of the argument. But if I am mis-reading your tone, just tell me to chill and I will understand.
 
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JoeGKushner

First Post
4e dragon playtested more than previous editions of dragon = no.

anyone recall the recent ranger article where the editor basically fessed up that they dropped the ball? and that was a bruce cordel article so its not like it was some new person with no clue.

Perhaps it's just I'm an old reader and I'm used to seeing things on a regular basis...

bizarre of the bazar

dragon's bestiary

class acts

etc...

the mag seems light on content (and it's not really, there are some great things for fighters and bahamut worshippers last issue for example) but it seems so... flimflammed or zig zag with no rhyme or reason.

i'll be curious to see what the 'split' actually looks like.
 

Imaro

Legend
So did people want me to do more comparisons? I realize the criteria are a little shaky but I also felt like certain posters weren't really representing the magazines under Paizo fairly.
 

MrMyth

First Post
I subscribed to Dragon for the entire 3.0/3.5 run. I've USED way more Dragon material in 4e since it's in the Character Builder and Compendium. It's just SO much easier than remember what issue had that one article... then once you find it, having to make sure you have access to that issue whenever what you took from it comes up.

Yeah, this. The content might be slightly lighter, but the actual usability of it is incredibly beyond what it used to be. I admit - when the magazine was in print, I enjoyed receiving it, reading through the articles (and enjoying the comics!) and.... I almost never got any use out of it actually in game. The current stuff I use all the time - for me, there really is no comparison.
 

Daern

Explorer
Remember when Dungeon got joined with Polyhedron, the RPGA magazine? They printed a new rpg in the back every issue, and it went backwards? Now that was weird and sort of useless.
 

Imaro

Legend
I subscribed to Dragon for the entire 3.0/3.5 run. I've USED way more Dragon material in 4e since it's in the Character Builder and Compendium. It's just SO much easier than remember what issue had that one article... then once you find it, having to make sure you have access to that issue whenever what you took from it comes up.

Yeah, this. The content might be slightly lighter, but the actual usability of it is incredibly beyond what it used to be. I admit - when the magazine was in print, I enjoyed receiving it, reading through the articles (and enjoying the comics!) and.... I almost never got any use out of it actually in game. The current stuff I use all the time - for me, there really is no comparison.

I understand what you two are getting at... but at the same time isn't your lack of using 3.5 Dragon material, at least partially, on you? I used plenty of stuff from the 3.5 Dragon, not necessarily in the same campaign or same adventure, but I got plenty of use out of it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 

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