So is Dragon magazine becoming upcoming ads?

[catsclaw227]

Is this a discussion about value or about content size?

If it's about content size between 3.5 Dragon and 4e Dragon, then maybe yes, you get more content in the 3.5 Dragon.

If this discussion is about value.....

I paid about $79/yr for my 3.x Dungeon and Dragon subscriptions, and I paid $59/yr for the first two years of 4e DDI. That's about $20/yr less, or a 25% discount in cost. If we are going to compare value, it's necessary to include all the DDI content, especially the integration of content into the digital databases and digital tools.

To claim that 3.5 Dragon and Dungeon gave you more value than a DDI subscription, which is how you get 4e Dragon and Dungeon, is dubious at best. And downright intentionally misleading at worst.

 

[JoeGKushner]

NO, the DDI is awesome.

I fear that it's such a huge advantage that 3rd party publishers are much better off putting their resoruces into stat light products. Who wants to mess with a unique class where you have to either hand write out everything or buy a specific PDF with the class abilities? Who wants to do the math once you've tasted the awesome of the character builder, especially one that's continously updated.

For me it's Dragon vs Dragon. In terms of price, old Dragon was higher because the new one is a package deal.

It's not a complaint about that necessarily as about content.

 

[Imaro]

Is this a discussion about value or about content size?

If it's about content size between 3.5 Dragon and 4e Dragon, then maybe yes, you get more content in the 3.5 Dragon.

If this discussion is about value.....

I paid about $79/yr for my 3.x Dungeon and Dragon subscriptions, and I paid $59/yr for the first two years of 4e DDI. That's about $20/yr less, or a 25% discount in cost. If we are going to compare value, it's necessary to include all the DDI content, especially the integration of content into the digital databases and digital tools.

To claim that 3.5 Dragon and Dungeon gave you more value than a DDI subscription, which is how you get 4e Dragon and Dungeon, is dubious at best. And downright intentionally misleading at worst.

It began about content... but it seems posters are randomly steering it away from that direction and on to something else.

 

[catsclaw227]

Well, straight content to content comarisons of 3.5 Dragon and 4e Dragon, IMHO, would put 3.5 on top.

But, for me, what you pay and what else you get from the content is more important, which is why I tend to look at value over volume.

 

[JoeGKushner]

It just seems that more online stuff that should be for everyone is shuffled under Dragon and then made for download as a whole issue. Like the Gamer Girl thing. If it's for new players, make it available for everyone. Which it is right? So why is it in Dragon? Fluff up page count. Ditto for RPGA and Ampersand. What? They don't want people to see what essentially amounts to advertising? "Coming next month something awesome!" Eh?

 

[garyh]

I understand what you two are getting at... but at the same time isn't your lack of using 3.5 Dragon material, at least partially, on you? I used plenty of stuff from the 3.5 Dragon, not necessarily in the same campaign or same adventure, but I got plenty of use out of it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Sure, there are ways I might have been able to get more use out of 3.x Dragon if I tried harder. But that doesn't make the fact that WotC makes it incredibly easy to use material in Dragon 4e any less important when comparing the two.

And I agree with everyone who's saying that if you're comparing actual value of the magazine, cost is important, which then brings in what else you get for your money with Dragon these days.

 

[MrMyth]

I understand what you two are getting at... but at the same time isn't your lack of using 3.5 Dragon material, at least partially, on you? I used plenty of stuff from the 3.5 Dragon, not necessarily in the same campaign or same adventure, but I got plenty of use out of it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I wanted to use it, and tried to grab the few things that were usable, but there simply was too much that was good conceptually or thematically, but poorly implemented mechanically. This both meant that when I was running things, large portions of content simply weren't useful, and that when I was playing in my friend's games, no one allowed Dragon content because it was known for being unbalanced compared to normal material. That is no longer the case, thus... I can get use out of it now.

 

[Shroomy]

For me, its not that I never used Dragon magazine content, I mean I did if something immediately struck my fancy while reading the article or if I was doing research on a specific subject (I mainly used 3.5e Dragon for new monsters or for additional information on existing monsters), but there was no way that I was ever going to remember every new feat, spell, magic item, alternate class feature, etc. However, with the CB, its all right there for me to view, consolidated into lists of things that my character qualifies for.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, I read this thread, then I read this and I want to point it out to the guys at Dragon.

The commic book alone would be a great addition to the magazine. I'd love it if they'd serialize it in Dragon.

The fluff alone of that other stuff would be almost worth the price of admission.

Woah!

In going through a long-unrummaged drawer, I found a fortune in old TSR memorabilia. Among the saved and precious manuscripts are printouts of the never-published City of Doors and City of Sin projects. Even better? A huge pile of photocopies of original Planescape concept art. Best? The complete manuscript for the unpublished Planescape: Unity of Rings comic book, which--man, we were all so disappointed when it got canned, because it was a super-cool comic with great art and a storyline the whole Planescape team really got into. I've even got a page of the original comic art and no, you can't have it.

 

[Shemeska]

Woah!

Man, I'd love to know what about the City of Doors manuscript was distinct from what was ultimately folded into the non-module portion of Faction War, and just what in the City of Sin's content was such that the project was aborted.