So Many Options - Making a 12th levle Paladin

[Rechan]

So, I've been invited to join a game that's in Paragon level, and I'm a little overwhelmed by the amount of options, and which are the best.

The Group consists of 4, and the party's defender is leaving. The other players consist of an Infernal Warlock, a Cleric (I believe Wisdom focused - the cleric is a dwarf), and a Ranger (I believe archery). The DM has PHB 1&2, Martial/Arcane power, but is letting me use Divine Power since I own it, there for no grabbing from all sources.

What I'm looking for are some mechanical suggestions. What I want:
[sblock]What I want to play: a very gallant knight. The Lancelot type: humble, noble, soft spoken. A defender of the defenseless. The "I'll make personal sacrifices to do what's right, because it's the right thing to do" type.

As far as story wise, to fit into the DM's campaign, Melora, Ioun and The Raven Queen are very big influencse in his campaign. Human, Elf and Half-elf fit the best, racially, in the geographical location, as well as the plot (a big racial segregation).

So I'm leaning towards a Cha paladin. None of the three Gods seem to jive with my concept. Human seems to be convenient (because if I go half-elf or elf, I'll likely get pulled into the elf subjigation issue; the DM has mentioned vengeance and fury as a motivator, and that's not my character's style). Humans have the bonus at-will and defenses.

If I go Half-Elf, what's a good diletante choice? What about Multi-classing, any suggestions there?

Since there's an INfernal lock AND a ranger in the game, I assume they have damage output really locked in, so Ardent Vow seems unnecessary. I know that Paragon tier is rife with status conditions, so would Touch of Virtue be better, overall, than Lay on Hands? Especially with a Cleric in the party?

What about Paragon Path? Again with a cleric in the party, healing may not be as crucial, so Hospitalar might be a bit redundant. I really like the Justicar, but I dislike that the class powers 1) hinge on adjacent allies and 2) use flat d8s instead of [W] damage. I fear that the PP powers will be doing little damage, there. Questing Knight, Demonslayer (since demons are rather pivotal right NOW in the campaign), and the Sacrificer.

All the feats, as far as Human, seem a bit redundant for some things. +2 to saves and things.

As far as Magical Items go, I don't know/think the DM is using Adventurer's Vault, so this really limits my magical item choices going in. Any suggestions because of this?[/sblock]
I don't need to be min-maxed out the wazoo, but I want to be competent at my job.

 

[Dan'L]

As you say you are leaning toward a Charisma build, the Half-elf sounds like a good choice. If you're worried about the racial war sub-plot, you could consider that being of both races, he tries to act as a peace-maker to bridge the two communities? In any case, for a Dilettante power, there are several good Charisma-based Weapon attacks in the Bard build -- one that gives a debuff to your enemy, and one that turns him into a source of Temp HP for your allies. Or, you could pick up a ranged (but implement-based) attack from Bard, Sorceror, or Warlock for those times you need to engage your DC'd target but can't quite get there.

Of course, going with Human will give you really nice base defenses. As all the at-wills are essentially v. AC for 1W + some rider, you'll have to consider if the third option would really give you something you'd much use. And starting at Paragon, the extra Feat might not seem like such a big thing.

As either race, you can access Human feats, though, and I'll say this: don't sell short getting bonuses to Saving Throws. As a defender, you'll be targeted a lot, and you'll want all you can get against status effects. And the feats aren't so much redundant as they are upgrades.

Also, for feats check out the Divinity and Domain feats related to your choice of Deity. I know many people swear by the Skill Divinity feat, and that one's available to followers of Ioun.

As far as deities go, are you limited to one of those three, or are they just the most prolific? If you have others available to you, I'd actually recommend taking one of those; chances are that your DM won't have as much of a preconstructed idea of how followers of those need to act in the campaign world, leaving you freer to build your own character's belief system without being pigeon-holed into something that isn't as on-vision for you.

I hope my ramblings are useful!

-Dan'L

 

[Destil]

There's enough good at-wills these days that a human Paladin is a good choice. Especially if you're charisma focused, since you may want Virtuous Strike over Melee Training. Half-elves make good paladins, though, and they have a really great paladin racial feat for a -3 mark.

The big downside of playing a Cha Paladin is your defenses aside from AC and will are going to suck. Bad. Since both your primary and secondary stat pump will... Another plus for the human.

Dilettante you have all kinds of choices these days depending on your build (though the horrid implement rules are a bit of a sticking point if your DM plays strictly by the book), and pretty much every half elf at least looks at taking Versatile Master at 11th. There's a huge number of options here, I started listing them but instead I'll just toss out some ideas:

Radiant Vengeance - Maintain mark at a distance, no implement issues, grants temp HP. You could have a viable semi-ranged build with just this power up your sleeve.
Pressing Strike - You most likely won't be playing a Str half elf, but it could work. Lots of mobility here.
Astral Seal - Another ranged option, this one with a nice healing/debuff aspect.
Mantel of the Infidel - Excellent ranged lock-down potential if you go Wis/Cha. Has implement issues...


As far as feats Honored Foe is fantastic if you have good Wis and work to make monsters not ignore your mark. Persistent Challenge is a real winner if you get stunned for a round or something (not having a mark for two rounds sucks). Finally Contagious Challenge is a winner when you're the only defender in a group (remember, you can have 4 paragon feats at 12th by retraining heroic ones).

 

[segrada]

I'm currently playing a Halfling CHA paladin in a home game that's working out very well. We're right about level 15. Halflings are a race that many people overlook for pretty much everything, but they actually have excellent defender-ish qualities:

- +2 AC vs. opportunity attacks to make running around to engage your Divine Challenge foe less of an issue.
- Second Chance means 1/encounter you can try to avoid the bad guy's big daily, turn a crit into a normal hit or miss, etc
- Racial feat Blessed Scoundrel can let you spend a surge when you use Second Chance, essentially giving you an immediate interrupt second wind
- Racial feat Lost in the Crowd gives +2 AC when you're adjacent to 2 guys larger than you. Since you're small, this is up pretty much all the time. At worst, it negates flanking bonuses, and at best you're up +2AC for the duration.
- +2 to your main attack stat, and bumps to Dex help fortify your normally bad reflex defense
- Flavor! Although halflings may be viewed with distrust in you campaign as a result of petty theft, you could make your character the perfect gentleman, a duelist who's small stature belies a ferocious desire to project others who may be metaphorically stepped on. Consider Avandra as a deity, since your character frequently avoids nasty blows in combat due to sheer blind luck.

One of the only downsides is that you can't use versatile weapons, so you're pretty much stuck using a scimitar or spending a feat to get a rapier.

Morninglord is an interesting PP if you're looking to do a bit more damage - you can take the level 2 utility power Bless Weapon, or simply get a radiant weapon to make all your attacks take advantage of the PP's radiant shenanigans. Plus, a paladin holding aloft a glowing sword is pretty iconic.

Feat wise for any Chaladin, an interesting thing to do is take both Healing Hands and Devoted Paladin. Together these give you 2x your charisma mod when you use Lay on Hands. For added fun, you can take Virtuous Recovery and Touch of Salvation (at paragon); this makes it so when you use Lay on Hands, you grant surge + 2x CHA, gain resist all damage = wisdom mod for a turn, and grant a saving throw with a bonus = charisma mod. All for a minor action!

 

[Turtlejay]

Or a small character can spend a feat for a waraxe (1d12) a craghammer (1d10brutal) or a bastard sword (1d10 +3 prof).

If you are not focused on damage damage damage, then taking a feat for a bigger weapon is not a given. Go with a longsword, or a short sword and heavy shield.

Since the OP did not mention a small race, I'm not sure how helpful that would be. I played a Str Paladin for quite awhile, and didn't really get much into the other side of the class. Paladins are good because:
- Plate proficiency and heavy shield use gives you a pretty sweet AC, and you should take advantage of that
- Lay Hands is a great power, use it on yourself in place of a healing potion as a minor action self heal
- Paladins (Cha Paladins probably even more) have a good leader secondary if you choose to use those powers.
- Paladins have their choice of a few different awesome Paragon Paths. Depending on what you see as your role in the party, you can be an excellent healer, or off-striker, or even improve your mark to near fighter quality.
- A Charisma Paladin should train in at least 1 or two of the social feats. They are class skills for you, and you have the stat for it. Go with one you have a racial synergy with, if possible, like Intimidate for a Dragonborn.

Jay

 

[Destil]

Scimitar is the best for a halfling with military melee. For some reason they didn't put versatile on it, so you can use it one handed...

 

[Rechan]

Yeah, not really interested in Halfling at the moment. It's a good race, but not my style.

As said, I'm heavily leaning towards the Touch of Virtue, as it likely will be more useful in Paragon tier. All those status effects.

 

[Rechan]

Magic items. He said that I can pick items from anywhere. my options are:

levels 13, 12 and 11, and 1000p

So, any suggestions?

If I go Justicar, I should probably get a magical Holy symbol (both PP class powers are Implement). But I am leaning towards a magical Shield or boots or something of use. Hmf.

 

[keterys]

Take a level 13 Bradaman's Weapon - perfect for paladins, counts as both a holy symbol and weapon and lets you double challenge.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Don't discount hospitaler. That healing-mark power makes them very sticky defenders.