So what is the history of Sorcerors

[Shadowslayer]

I always figured it was somewhat of a grudging add-on just there to appease the folks who decry the "unrealisticness" of having to memorize spells.

They could have sat back and watched all the armchair game designers wreck their games with half baked spell point systems, but I think they just decided to design one that works reasonably well, just to appease the masses. (sorry, I've yet to see a homebrew spell point system that's workable and has some semblance of balance...my apologies if you yourself have a good one in place.)

In the end, I think it works. Sorcerors can be kinda fun.

 

[Wraith-Hunter]

I always figured it was somewhat of a grudging add-on just there to appease the folks who decry the "unrealisticness" of having to memorize spells.

They could have sat back and watched all the armchair game designers wreck their games with half baked spell point systems, but I think they just decided to design one that works reasonably well, just to appease the masses. (sorry, I've yet to see a homebrew spell point system that's workable and has some semblance of balance...my apologies if you yourself have a good one in place.)

In the end, I think it works. Sorcerors can be kinda fun.

That is what the class looks like frankly. I haven't played one yet, going to be starting next week though. For me I usually play wizards and wanted something different and didn't want the book keeping.

Frankly from a game design perspective, I think they could have just put in a rule you can only know x ammount of spells per level modified by your Int score and let wizards spont cast. Much moee workable system than spell points. Don't really think they needed a whole new class. But that is water under the bridge.

I'm looking forward to playing a sorcerer for the first time even if the class is weaker. Not a big deal when everything comes down to it and I would not be surprised to see the class reworked in a revised/4e edition.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Wow, your sorcerers are so much cooler then mine.

It is Prestidigitation! The coolest spell of them all!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

PrCs should get something every level - they're not just some class that Joe Blow the adventurer can join when he feels like it; they're prestige classes.

We were talking about sorcerers having essentially 19 dead levels, not about PrCs.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It's important to get the FACTS:

#1: Sorcerers are mammals. (Except kobolds... and dragons. And lizardfolk.)
#2: Sorcerers cast spells ALL the time.
#3: The purpose of the sorcerer is to flip out and kill people.


Sorcerers can kill anyone they want! Sorcerers cast fireball ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this sorcerer who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the sorcerer fireballed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a sorcerer totally magic missile some kid just because the kid opened a window.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Spellcasting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't believe that sorcerers have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will fireball your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.

Cheers, -- N

Epic Win.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

So is the consensus that the sorcerer was originally intended as a monster class? I'm just curious as to why it was included in the game at all.

AFAIK, the sorcerer originally appeared in 2E, perhaps in a Dragon magazine, as an alternative Wizard. It made an appearance in a Baldur's Gate game, although that might have been on advance notice of the 3E changes. I do know that Sorcerers prefigured 3E, because I remember someone playing one in my 2E days.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I always figured it was somewhat of a grudging add-on just there to appease the folks who decry the "unrealisticness" of having to memorize spells.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that realism is the issue with their dislike of the Vancian spellcasting system. No spellcasting system is realistic. They just don't like the mechanic, for whatever reason.

 

[Huw]

My theory is that Sorcerrors were originally developped as a monster spellcasting class. They are easier to GM, you don't have to explain the lack of a spellbook, and they are actually not quite as nasty as wizards in a single encounter.

Took the words right out of my mouth (though I'd've spelled them right (actually, I might have spelled them as sorcers just to be ultra-pedantic) )

2e had sorcerers - they were called dragons. Remember, only the silver and gold dragons had spellbooks, the rest just got their spells replenished each day. 3e just formalised it into a class open to everyone.

However, what really annoys may are creatures which are quite definitely wizards get made into sorcerers for 3e. Phaerimm and aranea come to mind. They are also the domain of lazy DM's and adventure designers who can't be bothered to flesh out a spellbook.

 

[Crothian]

We were talking about sorcerers having essentially 19 dead levels, not about PrCs.

What dead levels? I'm fairly certain gaining access to new level spells and just getting more spells is really good ability.

 

[Henry]

The history of spontaneous casters is not born with 3E; rather, long before 3E arrived, I used to see several netbooks with alternate casting systems for magic-users in them; I may be mistaken, but I think Dragon Magazine had one or two alternate magic systems in its history before even 2nd edition. I also know that, as far back as 1987, our house rules used to include spontaneous casting of ALL clerical spells for clerics and druids, because it made sense as "miracles called by the priest" and because it never seemed to unbalance the gaming play. I even ran an al. wizard in my 2E games in the early 1990's where you could cast ANY spell known to you once, but if you wanted multiple copies, they had to be written down ahead of time. This encouraged them loading up on the magic missiles, fireballs, etc. but they saved 1 or 2 slots at each level for the esoteric things like glitterdust, or detect magic, etc. I would be surprised if thousands of other DMs didn't have similar experiments.

I have a feeling that all this history was well known to the designers when they sat down to make a draft of 3E...