baseballfury
First Post
The Cardinal said:
I'm interested in d20 modern as a generic rules set. I'm NOT interested in the Shadow Chasers setting though. Hmmm, think the designers watch Buffy much? Yawn.
So, who's interested in D20 Modern?
- Thread starter RangerWickett
- Start date
I'm interested in d20 modern as a generic rules set. I'm NOT interested in the Shadow Chasers setting though. Hmmm, think the designers watch Buffy much? Yawn.
Wolfspider
Explorer
Different strokes for different folks. My interest in Buffy and Angel is one of the reasons I'm so excited about Shadowchasers. Modern fantasy appeals to me. 
Zarrock God of Evil
First Post
I love the thought. d20 is the only system I play nowadays. I've got Dragonstar and with d20 CoC and d20 Modern coming up no genre of roleplaying is outside the reach of the system anymore.
I'm looking forward to gamemastering new genres with my favourite system...
-Zarrock
I'm looking forward to gamemastering new genres with my favourite system...
-Zarrock
Aaron2
Explorer
d20 Modern and Shadowchasers
I've spent much of yesterday reading the Shadowchaser thing in Dungeon (it showed up in the mail yesterday). If d20 Modern is anything like the sample I've seen, I have no interest in it anymore. I just don't like any of the changes. The one-class-per-stat is silly in execution. Since they all get only 1d4 points of vitality per level, there is little to distinguish the various stat-classes that couldn't have been handled perfectly with feats. This results in wonky-ness like the Strong Hero having a better Defense than the Fast Hero, otherwise he'd be too weak to be in combat. From what I've seen there is little incentive not to take a prestigue class as some of them do get 1d10 vitality. If your a Strong Hero, why not become a Soldier? They could easily have made one basic class with various feats and used Prestige Classes for special abilities. Also, why the heck haven't they turned BAB into skills? In D&D its reasonalble to assume everyone has some basic combat experience, but not in a modern game. Heck, the Smart Hero has the same BAB table as the Strong Hero and Fast Hero. What gives?
Plus the games got Force Points (called Action Points).
The armor DR's aren't handled properly. They only apply to Wound Damage. Thus, if you are fighting a guy with a knife, he can beat you down until you have no Vitality left and then, suddenly, he is incapable of hurting you. If you fighting a guy with armor and you have a dagger, you -don't want- critical hits. Since you can't hurt him them (because his armor now applies).
I'm hoping this is just a first-draft of the modern rule, but it doesn't look good for the Star Wars game (that's probably already finished rule-wise).
Aaron (will stick with Dragonstar for now)
I've spent much of yesterday reading the Shadowchaser thing in Dungeon (it showed up in the mail yesterday). If d20 Modern is anything like the sample I've seen, I have no interest in it anymore. I just don't like any of the changes. The one-class-per-stat is silly in execution. Since they all get only 1d4 points of vitality per level, there is little to distinguish the various stat-classes that couldn't have been handled perfectly with feats. This results in wonky-ness like the Strong Hero having a better Defense than the Fast Hero, otherwise he'd be too weak to be in combat. From what I've seen there is little incentive not to take a prestigue class as some of them do get 1d10 vitality. If your a Strong Hero, why not become a Soldier? They could easily have made one basic class with various feats and used Prestige Classes for special abilities. Also, why the heck haven't they turned BAB into skills? In D&D its reasonalble to assume everyone has some basic combat experience, but not in a modern game. Heck, the Smart Hero has the same BAB table as the Strong Hero and Fast Hero. What gives?
Plus the games got Force Points (called Action Points).
The armor DR's aren't handled properly. They only apply to Wound Damage. Thus, if you are fighting a guy with a knife, he can beat you down until you have no Vitality left and then, suddenly, he is incapable of hurting you. If you fighting a guy with armor and you have a dagger, you -don't want- critical hits. Since you can't hurt him them (because his armor now applies).
I'm hoping this is just a first-draft of the modern rule, but it doesn't look good for the Star Wars game (that's probably already finished rule-wise).
Aaron (will stick with Dragonstar for now)
TheStiegler
First Post
I've only been playing RPG's since I got to college five years ago, so I've had little exposure to many systems. Of the systems I've played in, I only remember the rules about armor for Earthdawn and D&D.
And armor providing damage reduction isn't the only thing that's shared....the different forms of alternate forms of vision, Dwarves had heat-sight, and Elves had low-light vision in ED long before 3rd edition. Also the idea of multiclassing by adding a class later on in your career, as opposed to the 1st/2nd edition idea of choosing your class(es) at 1st level (besides humans and dual-classing).
And as I said before, d20 lifting ideas from Earthdawn is a good thing. Isn't that the point of the d20 system, take the good stuff other people have done and add it to your own system.
Wolfspider, you mention lackluster sales for ED 2nd edition. Where have you seen these numbers? It hasn't been terribly long since it was released, what, 3 months? Just this last Thursday at my local WotC store I saw that two copies of ED2 that were there last week were gone this week. I was quite pleased and surprised to see both copies go in one week. Now I just need to meet these two people and finally get a game going.
Don't get me wrong, I love D&D, it's a real close battle between D&D and ED as to which I like better. Which is saying a lot considering my groups view of D&D towards the end of 2nd edition.
As for the "problem" with the core classes of Shadow Chasers, I remember in the first story about Shadow Chasers that it was said that it was part of the plan to have people take a prestige class. The core classes were simply a means of giving some manner of definition to the character before it achieved a PrC. But this similar vitality die, and armor only helping with wound damage really sounds like poor design work. I, too, hope Star Wars doesn't use it so poorly.
And armor providing damage reduction isn't the only thing that's shared....the different forms of alternate forms of vision, Dwarves had heat-sight, and Elves had low-light vision in ED long before 3rd edition. Also the idea of multiclassing by adding a class later on in your career, as opposed to the 1st/2nd edition idea of choosing your class(es) at 1st level (besides humans and dual-classing).
And as I said before, d20 lifting ideas from Earthdawn is a good thing. Isn't that the point of the d20 system, take the good stuff other people have done and add it to your own system.
Wolfspider, you mention lackluster sales for ED 2nd edition. Where have you seen these numbers? It hasn't been terribly long since it was released, what, 3 months? Just this last Thursday at my local WotC store I saw that two copies of ED2 that were there last week were gone this week. I was quite pleased and surprised to see both copies go in one week. Now I just need to meet these two people and finally get a game going.
Don't get me wrong, I love D&D, it's a real close battle between D&D and ED as to which I like better. Which is saying a lot considering my groups view of D&D towards the end of 2nd edition.
As for the "problem" with the core classes of Shadow Chasers, I remember in the first story about Shadow Chasers that it was said that it was part of the plan to have people take a prestige class. The core classes were simply a means of giving some manner of definition to the character before it achieved a PrC. But this similar vitality die, and armor only helping with wound damage really sounds like poor design work. I, too, hope Star Wars doesn't use it so poorly.
Wolfspider
Explorer
Like you, my information about sales of the new version of Earthdawn is based on personal experience. (Shame on me! But I really don't know where to go to look up RPG sales. Any suggestions?) The local gaming store has had the same three copies of the main rulebook on its shelves for months; in contrast, even the older Earthdawn books that the store has stockpiled have been disappearing off the shelves--just none of the new stuff.
Also, while the main rulebook may only have been out a few months, Living Room Games produced at least a couple books for Earthdawn over the last year. Have these been big sellers? I don't know. My gut, unreliable as it is, says no.
Also, while the main rulebook may only have been out a few months, Living Room Games produced at least a couple books for Earthdawn over the last year. Have these been big sellers? I don't know. My gut, unreliable as it is, says no.
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Chairman Aeon
First Post
I'd append d20 for adventure gaming.
And you forgot Buffy RPG under Eden and storytelling.
Which brings me to the question of what system for what world. I'm sure people playing a Buffy-inspired d20 game will be playing something different than the Unisystem version.
I.
Wolfspider
Explorer
Well, yes, of course. We'll be playing D20 instead of Unisystem. This reasoning seems rather circular to me.
Or did you mean something else? Like the two different systems will inspire different themes or different styles of play? I dunno about this. I think that people who would be interested in playing Buffy (fans of the show) already know what the world is like and the fact that, while combat is certainly a part of the violent world, it is not the be all and the end all of the show (and, consequently, the game). So I'm not going to tout one system over the other in terms of which promotes better storytelling. I pretty much think that the players and GM promote storytelling, not the system.
I'm not at all familiar with Unisystem, but I'm very comfortable and familiar with D20, so I'll probably stick with it. And there's enough material available about the Buffyverse that I don't think I'll need to pick up Eden's Buffy RPG as a resource. D2o Shadowchasers--and the full Modern version when it comes out--should suite me fine.
EricNoah
Adventurer
http://www.d20reviews.com/Interviews/interviews_valterra3.htm -- a little more information on the game.
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