So why doesn't Hasbro/WOTC....?

[Samothdm]

They probably think the extra sales wouldn't be enough to justify a costly TV commercial. They are probably right, too.

I tend to agree with you, thinking in the short-term, based on how many sales they had of the Player's Handbook and my estimate of how much they make, on average, on the Player's Handbook. Taking 10% of that total for a marketing budget would not put them in the realm where they could afford a TV commercial.

But, what about more economical ways to use TV rather than just run a 30-second national spot? What about regional or local cable? What about sponsorships of programs that don't require a production budget, but just a static slide of the product (or product logo) and a 10-second "Buffy the Vampire Slayer is brought to you by Xander's favorite RPG - Dungeons & Dragons" thing?

My team had tons of other ideas for them, too, including stuff like a D&D Product Demo at the Premiers of the Harry Potter and Fellowship of the Ring movies. Imagine a team of WotC employees (or even the game designers) doing a small 10-city tour that did a demo of the game in the lobbies of theaters during the release of these two movies (the biggest fantasy movies of all time)? The cost of that would be a fraction of the cost to advertise the game on TV.

 

[Mythtify]

They did a large budget advertising campign. It was called Dungeons and Dragons the Movie. After that, is it suprising that they don't want to spend money on TV?

Though, I think with the release of Fellowship of the Ring to DVD, and Two Towers coming out, it would be a good time to advertise. With the general public more into fantasy now then ever before, I think that Hasbro/WoTC is realy missing a good chance to reach new costomers. I know that Wizards dosn't hold the Middle Earth liscense. That can be worked around, after all a ton of comercials come out around the super bowl that mention "the big game", or some such thing.

It would be easy to do some type of add, showing the shadows of , or backs of, A wizard in a pointy hat, an elf, a dwarf, and a few overwait "halflings", trudging through the forest/dungeon, and throw a tag line like "live the adventure" or some such.

It just dosnt look like Hasbro cares if D&D lives or not.

 

[Ranger REG]

Then that was THE STUPIDEST advertising campaign. Thankfully, Wizards did not put any money toward that movie, other than receiving the money for the rights to Dungeons & Dragons trademark use in that movie.

 

[Heap Thaumaturgist]

D&D The Movie was negative advertising, personally.

You want to escape a social stigma and then allow something like -that- to hit the screens? You'd think somebody would have at least read the script before they started filming and said: "Hey, guys, wait ... this sucks. Is this the real script or is somebody yanking my chain here?"

That and I'm sure celebrity gamers are NOT going to do any at-scale work for WotC. I'm sure none of them feel that strongly about it. People who play tend to ... play. It's the serious minority that sits on web-boards moaning about The State Of The Hobby and How To Escape The Stigma.

It's not like kids are getting beat to death in schools for being gamers or finding Gamer Slurs painted on their homes. It's not really a Human Interest Good Deed sort of situation. It's a game. Some people play it. Some people don't. Alot of people think it's dorky. So what, eh?

The only way anything will change is if, somehow, randomly across the country a core group of very attractive, popular, and charming high-school kids begin playing and make it "cool" again. Those are the people that drive things. It's an old social theory based on "Trend Setters" and "Followers" ... if the game begins to appeal to a larger market it'll start selling more. It's not really a very "advertising-friendly" sort of product, I don't think. Everybody knows WHAT D&D is ... they just don't like it. Most of it is misconception, true, but you're not really introducing anybody to it.

--HT

 

[alsih2o]

why "them"?

how about a more grass roots approach? get some folks from your local gaming store to help you do an "adopt a highway" program...cleaning up a little roadside trash has helped the reputation of parrotheads and bikers.

or sponsor an activity at a local fair, a caricaturist making portraits of folks in middle ages garb and armor.

use basic paper mache(sp?) skills at your local elementary or junior high to build a dragon, or go and volunteer for a small ones writing workshop.

i am of the opinion that a commercial won't do as much for the game spreading the word locally that gamers are responsible citizens with a safe, creative hobby that builds thinking, writing and math skills.

(feel free to mock my community mindedness now)

 

[Fast Learner]

The only way anything will change is if, somehow, randomly across the country a core group of very attractive, popular, and charming high-school kids begin playing and make it "cool" again. Those are the people that drive things. It's an old social theory based on "Trend Setters" and "Followers" ... if the game begins to appeal to a larger market it'll start selling more. It's not really a very "advertising-friendly" sort of product, I don't think. Everybody knows WHAT D&D is ... they just don't like it. Most of it is misconception, true, but you're not really introducing anybody to it.

I agree with most of that, but with a major caveat: those attractive, popular, charming high-school kids are incredibly influenced by companies like Viacom (owners of MTV, VH-1, and Nickelodeon, along with Paramount, CBS, UPN, etc.) and The Gap (owners of The Gap, Banana Republic, Old Navy, etc.). Yes, they respond to what they see in the marketplace, but now more than ever before the marketplace responds to what they promote.

If someone at MTV decided to make D&D cool, they could do it quite easily. It would begin very subtley, with the occasional phrase inserted into a conversation on TRL, a couple of videos with fantasy themes (yes, MTV does tell record companies what they're looking for in videos), etc., slowly escalating into more blatant gaming-related content. Within a year D&D would lose much of its stigma, and within 3 or 4 years it would be cool (as those who remember is sucking graduate from high school).

But, of course, there's no reason for MTV to do this. They can't charge Hasbro for it (the way they charge record companies for playing their videos and promoting certain artists and types of music, or clothing companies for showcasing their products, or other product placements), because it would require a 5 year investment before the return on their investment became reasonable, and probably 10 years before it was clear that it was a good idea -- they're starting too far behind the curve. Companies can no longer work on those time scales, as the pressure to improve results and the stock price is worse than ever before.

Make no mistake, though: it's no longer random choice on the part of these "cool" kids: their interests are now almost exclusively molded and directed by large corporations.

 

[Samothdm]

Make no mistake, though: it's no longer random choice on the part of these "cool" kids: their interests are now almost exclusively molded and directed by large corporations.

That is somewhat true. Just look at the "Tech Vests" from a few years ago being sold by the Gap and Old Navy. The Gap said that those vests were cool, and a lot of people rushed out to go buy them.

But, it works both ways. There are some companies that pay huge sums of monies to have consultants take them out onto the streets into inner-city neighborhoods, shopping malls, etc. to see what the "cool kids" are doing, what they're wearing, and how they talk. These companies then develop products that they think will appeal to these cool kids. So, the companies are being influenced by what the cool kids are already doing.

The next part of the process is that the companies then pay consultants to "seed" their products to these cool kids, who start wearing the new shoes/pants/shirts or using the new model of cellphone or whatever, and that it supposed to filter down from the "leader types" to the "follower-types".

It makes you wonder how any products ever actually make it to the public. Too many consultants and focus groups and what not. Of course, I'm one of 'em, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

 

[Nish]

Well, there's also the question of whether or not dramatically increasing the player base would actually be good for the game. I mean, what do I care about WotC's bottom line other than how it affects the D&D products they publish?

Let's face it: gamers are a niche market. PnP RPGs more likely than not will never appeal to the mainstream unless they are produced and designed for the mainstream, if at all.

Now, a shift in design towards a broader audience may or may not be a good thing from any given person's perspective, so all I can do is give my own personal take on it. First of all, I am not a normal person. My tastes and sense of aesthetics tend to be as far from average as possible without compromising my mental health. I generally despise things aimed at the lowest common denominator. Thus, if D&D were altered to be more mass consumption friendly, I would probably stop buying it (at least new books, there's still some 2e Planescape stuff I don't have ). While the overall quality of products being published may or may not change, there would almost certainly be a shift in the style and feel of the game that would be away my personal tastes, and likely away from those of most current gamers. Maybe not enough to drive off all or even most as the horde piles in, but I'm sure many would stick with what they have, switch to another less popular system or stop playing all together.

And then again, maybe I'm just self-centered and elitist... Wait, no, I am self-centered and elitist, but I also think that mass-marketing D&D wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for it.

 

[Samothdm]

I mean, what do I care about WotC's bottom line other than how it affects the D&D products they publish?

Huh. Well, that's the point, really. If WotC doesn't sell enough current products, they're not going to be able to publish any more new products.

Look at it this way - the big money makers for them are really the core rulebooks. They use the money that they make from selling those books to put out the more niche stuff like Forgotten Realms products (and, yes, that is still considered "niche" - even though it sells well it still doesn't sell as well as the Players Handbook). So, the core books are their bread-and-butter.

If new players don't join the hobby, then the sales of the core books will dry up and they won't have any money left to pay their game designers to make new niche products. It's pretty simple, really. In order for any company to stay afloat, they need customers.

And, I don't think that D&D needs to change to get new customers. In the game that I run, over half of the players are either very lapsed players (hadn't played in 15+ years) or are newbies. The lapsed players in particular had seen ads for 3rd Edition when it came out in the more mainstream media and they are now two of my most consistent players. Without those ads, who knows if they'd be playing now.

 

[zilch]

Do they still advertise D&D in Marvel comics? They should do.