SoD, how can we accommodate everyone?

[Kynn]

But the 3 saves approach in 4th ed is just way too much time. When a PC goes down when I play 4th ed there is no panic - I normally keep going with the fight and give the downed PC a chance to save again. Then I might do something...

You need more coup de grace action in your 4e games.

 

[Kynn]

That might not be relevant anymore. I'd guess from some of the things we've heard that you could whip up a "simple" character in <15 minutes, and then "complexify" it later.

Monte Cook: "For example, the basic game fighter might have specific level-bases abilities. Things that every fighter has. If you decide to get more customized, you can swap standard abilities for more complex, optional abilities. These are the kinds of things that feats do now. But the complex stuff is balanced with what's in the core. One character is more complex, but not necessarily more powerful."
​

and

• Character creation 15 mins for experienced players, 30 mins for a new player.
  • "What we're really getting at is that character creation should take as long as you want. If you want to jump into a game quickly, you can put together an easy character and not worry about too many of those options. But if you want to build the more complex character and go through the options and tweak it to be exactly what you want, then you have the time and options for that."

One can always hope.

In my AD&D/D&D games, the time consuming part was always thinking up the concept and idea for a character, not the actual stats themselves.

Maybe I was doing it wrong or something, but I've always placed a premium on background, history, personality, and style.

 

[Oni]

In my AD&D/D&D games, the time consuming part was always thinking up the concept and idea for a character, not the actual stats themselves.

Maybe I was doing it wrong or something, but I've always placed a premium on background, history, personality, and style.

You can get interesting and arguably more organic results by allowing those things to emerge from play, based on basics cues such as randomized stats and situational improvisation. That's not to suggest one method is greater or lesser than the other, just different. It is faster though to just hop back in and see what comes out of your interactions.

 

[Kynn]

You can get interesting and arguably more organic results by allowing those things to emerge from play, based on basics cues such as randomized stats and situational improvisation. That's not to suggest one method is greater or lesser than the other, just different. It is faster though to just hop back in and see what comes out of your interactions.

Except that for most versions of the game (starting with 2e), your character concept informed a lot of the decisions you made in the character creation process. Even in 1e AD&D, you had to do at least minimal thinking about what you wanted to play (put your stats in order based on your chosen race and class -- I never played in a "roll 3d6 in order and that determines what you are" game.)

 

[dangerous jack]

I like this idea.

Basically I think the 4th ed was a vast improvement on previous editions of D&D in respect to grave threats. I dont want to go back to 2nd ed in games I play or DM, I just find instant death anti climatic and strategically lacking.

But the 3 saves approach in 4th ed is just way too much time. When a PC goes down when I play 4th ed there is no panic - I normally keep going with the fight and give the downed PC a chance to save again. Then I might do something...

I think this (one round) proposal should be default, if you want gritty insta death on a fail that is one option, if you want 2 or 3 rounds then that is another option.

Agreed on the 3 saves taking too much time in 4e and other PCs seeing if he'll snap out of it on his own.

Easy improvement (although we haven't tried it at my table yet): getting reduced to 0hp requires you to make an immediate death save. Also getting hit while below 0hp requires an immediate death save. This also can reduce some of the I'm up, I'm down, I'm up, I'm down. But it's probably not for everyone.

 

[Oni]

Except that for most versions of the game (starting with 2e), your character concept informed a lot of the decisions you made in the character creation process. Even in 1e AD&D, you had to do at least minimal thinking about what you wanted to play (put your stats in order based on your chosen race and class -- I never played in a "roll 3d6 in order and that determines what you are" game.)

At the risk of getting off topic, I've never had a problem with letting players fill in some of those blanks as they play and they get a clearer understanding of what they want. Don't know what feat to take, leave it blank and pick up something that makes sense as you go, if you're not happy with it, you can make a more thought out decision once the game session is over.

 

[Hassassin]

At the risk of getting off topic, I've never had a problem with letting players fill in some of those blanks as they play and they get a clearer understanding of what they want. Don't know what feat to take, leave it blank and pick up something that makes sense as you go, if you're not happy with it, you can make a more thought out decision once the game session is over.

I usually ask that players have abilities rolled, race, class and name chosen, and they are good to go. The rest can be chosen during play or before the next gaming session.

 

[Grazzt]

In my AD&D/D&D games, the time consuming part was always thinking up the concept and idea for a character, not the actual stats themselves.

Same here. For my players (and me when I was/am a player). Rolling up a character in OD&D, BECMI, AD&D is quick and easy compared to later editions.

 

[Ratskinner]

In my AD&D/D&D games, the time consuming part was always thinking up the concept and idea for a character, not the actual stats themselves.

Maybe I was doing it wrong or something, but I've always placed a premium on background, history, personality, and style.

Sure, but we're talking about somebody who is putting a premium on getting back in the game after character death, not starting a new character for the game. In that situation, as others have suggested, I tend to roll straight and hope that the dice guide me. Honestly, unless you're also willing to have tables of random background elements or something, I don't think anything mechanical is going to speed up the part you're talking about.

 

[BryonD]

But, why the double standard though? The myths don't say that you will die quietly in your bed years later if you hear a banshee. The myths say you are going to die horribly and very, very soon.

So, if your PC's hear a banshee, do they always die horribly shortly afterward? If not, why not? How do you justify the need to exactly follow one myth and not another?

You assuming a great deal there.

I guess I'd like you to demonstrate that I've used a double standard or retract the claim as unfounded.