Solos, Status Effects, and a House Rule

[CapnZapp]

There are a number of new effects... like the 'heal every time you hit this enemy' or 'heal every time this enemy makes an attack roll' ones from the bard that are extremely strong on a solo. The latter in particular can get really silly with solos that make multiple attacks (just about all of them).

Without looking in PHB2: isn't this too best fixed by fixing those powers? Rather than bringing them into this "how to make Solos less vulnerable to status conditions" discussion?

 

[keterys]

It's hardly new for solos to be far more hurt by effects like 'cannot move away from the target' and 'healed on attack', 'massive penalty to attack', etc, that aren't conditions on page 277.

 

[Elric]

It's hardly new for solos to be far more hurt by effects like 'cannot move away from the target' and 'healed on attack', 'massive penalty to attack', etc, that aren't conditions on page 277.

Abilities like "massive bonus to hit that lasts for the encounter", e.g., the Warlord Daily 1 Lead the Attack, are the same. However, allowing a solo to save (at +0) to end Lead the Attack each round means that without initiative shenanigans, it's possible for a Warlord to hit with Lead the Attack and have the solo almost immediate shrug it off to little benefit from the party, and the chance of getting multiple rounds of use out of it is slim. Still, as an encounter-long benefit Lead the Attack can completely devastate a solo. It's hard to find a middle ground.

 

[RangerWickett]

I've tried to follow some of your advice in the design of a dragon for my next session. I've posted a full write-up here - http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/257250-wazir-ghul-khota-leper-dragon.html

I'd love feedback.

 

[CapnZapp]

Perhaps if we add Save Points?

That is, a Solo gets 2 Save Points (along with its Action Points). A Save Point can be used for one thing only: getting an extra free save against one particular condition (chosen by the monster), not limited to the page 277 ones.

(An Elite gets one Save Point to make the rule easy to remember.)

This way, there is middle-ground.

Better than not getting any saves at all; but not as broken as getting free saves every round.

If the DM wastes these Save Points on the merely annoying conditions, tough. Each Solo only gets two of these points, so the DM better save them for those things that would make the fight a push-over.

Thoughts?

 

[CapnZapp]

Too add to this idea, how about saying "extra saves due to spending Save Points are always completely unmodified".

That is, the Solo don't get its +5. The Orbizard doesn't get its -16.

Perhaps this would be good for the game? It basically adds a 80% chance a strategy that involves a single debilitating effect (whether end-of-encounter or save-at-minus-fifteen) won't completely win the day.

At the very minimum, you would need to throw three such effects at the Solo to guarantee a lockdown. Which might be just what the game needs...? Thoughts?

 

[Starfox]

End-of-next-turn powers already feel stronger than Save-Ends powers in many cases. With the former, your whole party is guaranteed once chance to use the effect. Any solution must take this into effect.

With MMII solos so different from MMI solos, solutions need to be tailored to different sources. We could create some kind of template, like the Orcus Upgrade suggested in the Demogorgon article. This would include something like this.

• 80% hit points and slightly lowered defenses.
• About a 30% damage upgrade.
• Some kind of "out" for the creature to escape effects (not suggested in that article.

Even before I read up on Save Points, I thought that using Action Points for this might be a good idea. This need not be restricted to solos; it could work for elites and even PCs. My players hate all the effects they suffer from; this could bring that under control. Say that by spending an action point at the beginning you your turn, you can automatically escape any one effect you are suffering from. No distinction between types of effects. This would also nerf orb wizards while still letting them feel they had some effect; they cost the monster an action point. Every encounter.

Letting players do this might require looking at some paragon paths, tough.

 

[Elric]

Too add to this idea, how about saying "extra saves due to spending Save Points are always completely unmodified".

That is, the Solo don't get its +5. The Orbizard doesn't get its -16.
...Thoughts?

Orb Wizards should simply be fixed on their own terms. It's better to fix save penalties rather than add a bunch of "but your save penalties do nothing!" abilities to the game. I believe WotC included a "Dual Brain" template in MM2 that lets a creature auto-save against stuns; they seem to be going with "release a new product with a silver bullet for the problems that a previous product created" instead.

There's no need for "save points" linked to action points when you can just add an ability that's more or less the same thing to monsters.

For example (I've got a variation of this at the top of the page, but this is simpler).

Remarkable Resilience (no action; recharge when first bloodied)
This creature makes a saving throw against an effect that a save can end, or a condition (see PH pg 277), besides Marked, even if the condition doesn't normally allow a saving throw (a successful save ends that condition).

 

[keterys]

The creature I ran/made last night had a power that let him switch places with a nearby minion and all conditions and effects transferred to the minion. That worked out in an interesting manner, though it wouldn't have dealt with stun - thankfully was a heroic game so I didn't have to worry about it.