Some 3.0 / 3.5 Advice - Incoherent Ramblings

[Melkor]

I like a lot about 3.5. I like a lot about 3.0. I'm trying to figure out how to best combine the two, but I don't want to carry all of the books around all of the time.

As an example of some of the things I like:
The Ranger and the Bard classes.
The new 'Space' rules.
The way the new monsters appear have balanced CRs.

Things I don't like so much:(I won't justify why, I'll just say I don't like them so much)
The weapon size rules
The way cover and obscurity are now flat -4 attack penalty and 20% base miss change (I know there are rules to adjust the obscurity - I just liked that neat table ....)
The increased push toward miniatures.
I don't like the things that happened to some skills (minor nitpick).

There are more, but those are just a couple of examples.....So here's what I was wondering....How are you folks that aren't switching over full force to 3.5 combining your game ?

I was thinking that I could use all of the 3.0 books except for the Monster Manual.....use the 3.5 MM, and write down notes on the Ranger Class, the Bard class, the new Dwarf movement in armor rules, and any other things I liked about 3.5. That way I wouldnt have to carry around all of the books.

Oh man, I know this is a discombobulated post.....I'm just all over the page trying to figure out whether to move wholeheartedly to 3.5, stick completely with 3.0, or combine the two...

What are you folks doing ?

 

[Remathilis]

I went gung-ho into 3.5, but if you want to combine games, I suggest this.

1.) Use the system your going to be using most (either 3.0 or 3.5).
2.) Get a copy of the SRD for the other version.
3.) Create a doc with all the errata/changes/what have you.
4.) Sticky note changes as necessary in old book.
5.) Play on.

As an aside, I don't see the problem with the new weapon size rules. They've existed in 3.0 in various forms (Halfling Kamas, the chart reprinted in Savage Species/DMG/Arms and Equipment, the Fullblade, etc.) Instead of having it all piecemail, its now codified as one system. In addition, it clarifies what weapons are "light" (I saw more than a few halfling rogues with weapon finesse: short sword in 3e.) and is a breeze to convert, even on the fly. If you really want halflings wielding human short swords without penalty, I suggest this rule (which may or may not work or coincide with the DMG.)

A race can use a light weapon of a race one size bigger as a one-handed weapon.
A race can use a one-handed weapon of a race one size bigger as a two-handed weapon.
A race can't use a two-handed weapon of a race one size bigger.
A race can't use a missile weapon of a race one size bigger unless it is marked as "light", "hand" or "short."
The DM always has final rule.

 

[haiiro]

I'm starting a new game this month, and had planned to go 100% 3.5e if I liked it. I like it.

I'll be making a few changes, some of which I would have made under 3.0 as well -- like using the rules from Mindscapes -- but at least initially I won't be house ruling anything back to 3.0. I want to try it at as cohesive package and see how it works, and based on everything I've seen thus far I expect it to work quite well.

I'm also shuffling in a few of the niftiest easily portable ideas from AU -- like Monte's Tumble skill, and Sturdy as a replacement for Toughness.

 

[Melkor]

Thanks for the responses.

Remathilis - I'm glad to see you were able to sift through my rambling and understand exactly what I was trying to get at.

At first glance, It's easy to dismiss some things from 3.5 and just say 'screw it, I'll go back to 3.0'. But when I look at all of the changes to classes, monsters, spells, and other things (like the improved Damage Resistance rules), I really like a lot of 3.5.

I like the charts for Cover and Concealment in the 3.0 PHB on Page 133 instead of the blanket -4 Attack Penalty and flat 20% miss change....I'll probably keep that.

I like the new space rules in 3.5, but I can't quite understand why you use a corner of your characters square to a corner of an enemy square to determine Line of Sight instead of just the center of the model to the center of the enemy model ??? It seems like if a character is moving around in his 5' space, you wouldn't want to use the very edge of that space to determin LoS.....maybe it's just me.

I'm dissapointed because the conversion rules on the Wizards website don't mention the Arms & Equipment Guide or Savage Species. Arms & Equipment lists the weapons in the old way, and also shows all of the vehicles with Face/Reach - that's the stuff I can think of off of the top of my head.......Not sure about the Savage Species book, I haven't had a chance to read through it yet - 3.5 came out right after I got it.

In the end, I guess I'll have to pick and choose what stays and what goes - but it's such a pain in the ass to have to have two reference points when designing adventures.

 

[Wombat]

...and of course to muddy the waters you can bring in Arcana Unearthed...

Personally, of the three paths, that is the way I am leaning at the moment, but that is a matter of personal taste.

 

[Eldragon]

My policy on 3.0 vs. 3.5 is quite simple. The DM, can use rules from either 3.0 or 3.5 at any time, and may switch between them at will. This is to speed up gameplay. Of course I have my hybrid rules in mind, and try to stay as close to them as possible.

The only exception is spells. Where only 1 system is used, 3.0 xor 3.5. Mixing and matching only for the most broken of spells (In my case, Hold Person and Haste). This is so that a single PHB is all that is needed to look up spells, and no one will have to think "Are we using version 3.x for this spell?"

I don't want to have to go through my old books and update them, so I'm not! The rule changes from a player perspective are major, but from a DM perspective its no big deal. Do you really need to update that 3.0 NPC so his ranger skills and BaB are accurate? No. Rule 0 can take care of that.

So in short, only worry about converting your players to your desired hybrid version. The DM has the right to do whatever he pleases. It helps keep the PCs on their toes!

Otherwise I did almost exactly what Ramathilis did.