Some Adjustments to Armor

Land Outcast · Jun 26, 2006

Like I said, I'm revamping the system and I'm doing it low-magic style. Or at least 'no magic items style'.

and... there is a website hosting it, or similar?

Primitive Screwhead · Jun 26, 2006

airwalkrr, I agree that this is an area that could be fixed, but I dont' think pricing is the way to do it. Simplifying the armor system seems to be a better route...

Tequila Sunrise I think I like where you went with this..and it might be something we could re-tweak out of your revamp'd rules which apparently have a number of changes..

I would be interested in seeing a fuller explantion, including how you arrive at the armor check/arcane failure numbers and how you handle shields..

Tequila Sunrise · Jun 27, 2006

Land Outcast said:
and... there is a website hosting it, or similar?

Alas, I've been trying to learn web design on my own so that I can make websites but can't get Notepad to format for the net properly. I could use a design program or a free cite but I'm trying to motivate myself to learn web design just to have the skill. If you want to know more about my revamp, I'll be glad to post it or even email it but in truth it's only part done and slow going.

Primitive: I don't use arcane spell failure, because I made spellcasting more difficult to use effectively in certain ways and because I just can't find a way to sufficiently justify it. I do shields like the PHB except that heavy shields grant +4 AC, with an equal skill penalty.

Land Outcast · Jun 27, 2006

Well... I'd like an e-mail

And/or you could also post it in a thread around here... and link it to your sig... (you know, just to show off

)

Spellcasting mopre difficult? I'll have to see that...

But returning to the topic at hand: Armor...

I haven't really found a way to make up for it in my games, everyone ends up using either Fullplate, [Mithril] chainshirt, or Padded armor... all other armor types are rarely looked at unless in a whim of mine I happen to make them find the Great Bear's Hide or similar.

[sblock=Magic Armor, Great Bear's Hide... sudden idea]
+2 Hide armor; looks like a bear's skin which still conserves the head and the claws.
Once per day, activated through a command word, its wearer can take upon the form of a Bear-Man as the armor fuses to his skin for ten minutes (picture Werebear in hybrid form).

HP: 3d8 temporary hp
AC: You gain +3 natural AC
Attacks: You gain 2 claw attacks at your normal attack bonus and a bite as a secondary attack.
Damage: Claws (1d6+Str Bonus); Bite (1d8+1/2 Str Bonus)
Abilities: Str +8, Con +4
[/sblock]

airwalkrr · Jun 27, 2006

The general consensus seems to be that although the armor rules could use a little work, pricing is either too complicated, or not effective enough. Taking that at face value for the time being, I'd like to ask everyone if they think it is ok that +5 padded armor costs almost 25,000 gp more than banded mail yet both still provide the same AC bonus? Is the weight class and maximum Dex bonus of padded armor worth 25,000 gp?

The reason I ask this question is because I see a big disparity in the value of having magical light armor and having magical plate armor, a disparity that is in no way reflected in their costs. Magical leather armor was relatively cheap in AD&D and I don't think that ever broke the system while magical plate was prohibitively expensive and I don't think that ever broke the system either.

I still have a problem with the fact that there is not an appreciable cost benefit to purchasing scale mail. This is a more minor concern though. Technology often improves in ways that make better tools that are also cheaper than the tools they replace. I still have a game balance problem with it, but it is simply small potatoes compared to the cost problem.

The reason I am looking at adjusting the price is because I feel that it s one of the simplest ways to make an adjustment to the rules. It does not have as wide of a ripple effect on the game as adjusting actual mechanics, like the armor check penalty, max Dex, or weight class. A bad guy is wearing +2 leather armor. Well, it doesn't really matter if it costs 2,000 gp or 4,000 gp if that is what the DM wants the bad guy to have. It could impact the "ideal" NPC wealth tables in the DMG, but not drastically if the changes are not also drastic.

The system could be simpler too. Suppose the cost of enhancing light armor is (bonus squared) x 500 gp, medium armor (bonus squared) x 1,000 gp, and heavy armor (bonus squared) x 2,000 gp. Masterwork components could follow a similar formula with light armor costing 75 gp, medium 150 gp, and heavy 300 gp. This doesn't address the disparities between things like chainmail and breastplate, but it is a step in the right direction.

ChrisHaines · Jun 27, 2006

What if instead of fiddling with the prices you changed what the Enhancement bonus did for the wearer? I'm not sure what would work, but let's take DR as an example. What if you allowed half the Enhancement bonus [rounded up] to equal a Damage Reduction raiting? So that +5 padded armor now gives you a DR of 3. The mundane suit of Banded Mail doesn't seem like such an advantage price-wise anymore. That seems to work across the board.

Sir Brennen · Jun 27, 2006

ChrisHaines said:
What if instead of fiddling with the prices you changed what the Enhancement bonus did for the wearer? I'm not sure what would work, but let's take DR as an example. What if you allowed half the Enhancement bonus [rounded up] to equal a Damage Reduction raiting? So that +5 padded armor now gives you a DR of 3. The mundane suit of Banded Mail doesn't seem like such an advantage price-wise anymore. That seems to work across the board.

If you're going to go down that road, I'd recommend the Iron Heroes approach to armor. The list of armors in that book was simplified somewhat, and armor grants DR as a die roll (Full plate is 1d8, for example.) This helps prevent "unbeatable" DR for lighter weapons or average Strength characters.

However, the system also replaces the Armor bonus to AC with a class-based Defense bonus. Adjustments would have to be made.

Magical bonuses to armor would increase DR on a point-for-point basis. Plate Mail +2 would be DR 1d8+2.

I don't think the system addresses special materials, though.

DanMcS · Jun 27, 2006

Tequila Sunrise said:
Materials:
Leather: grants DR 1
Chain: grants DR 2
Scale: grants DR 3
Plate: grants DR 4

Size:
Shirt Armor: +2 AC
Full Armor: +4 AC
Mail Armor: +6 AC

What do you mean by "mail"? Mail is just another word for chain. It's not a style or shape of armor. You can have a mail hauberk, shirt, leggings, collar, or coif, and so on.