Some D&D Insider bits (Update 9/13: Lots of new info)

[Fobok]

Personally, I don't mind paying extra for miniatures. I just want the miniatures I want. I'll probably still buy the boosters if it's the only option. I just hope it'll be a monsters-only selection option, so that we don't end up getting NPCs that we could have created with the character creator.

 

[Nebulous]

Wait a minute.

I may be dense, but are they actually saying that you will have to BUY virtual miniatures if you want them to be represented (as a graphic other than a token) on your online battlemat?

Please tell me I'm missing something.

At this point, that is my understanding as well, and i am VERY displeased by that. I really love the plastic minis, and think it is stupid to purchase an easily replicated digital copy. I could be way off though, the details are pretty sketchy so far.

 

[DaveMage]

At this point, that is my understanding as well, and i am VERY displeased by that. I really love the plastic minis, and think it is stupid to purchase an easily replicated digital copy. I could be way off though, the details are pretty sketchy so far.

Exactly.

I understand that a fee needs to be charged to use the D&D Insider. No problem with that.

But it truly boggles my mind that there's even the POSSIBILITY that you would have to pay extra for something like this which should absolutely be a standard feature. ESPECIALLY if it ends up being that the virtual minis are randomized in any way as some have been suggesting.

 

[Nebulous]

Exactly.

I understand that a fee needs to be charged to use the D&D Insider. No problem with that.

But it truly boggles my mind that there's even the POSSIBILITY that you would have to pay extra for something like this which should absolutely be a standard feature. ESPECIALLY if it ends up being that the virtual minis are randomized in any way as some have been suggesting.

What if they come in a Virtual Box, that we get to tear open with Virtual hands???

 

[Glyfair]

What if they come in a Virtual Box, that we get to tear open with Virtual hands???

Hmmm...assuming they go with the random miniatures, I forsee a different approach (assuming there isn't a skirmish tie-in).

Presumably we won't be limited in number of figures. If I need 4 Axe-beaks, I don't need to buy enough miniatures to get 4 Axe-beaks, I just need to buy enough to get one.

If that is true, then getting a duplicate figure is a complete waste of money. With physical miniatures duplicates are fine, I need them for multiples. So, it would be possible for someone to get a booster that's a complete waste, because they are all duplicates.

Since that would be horrible, and end any interest in doing that, there is a more reasonable approach. Set it up so that you don't get duplicates. That means there would be a fixed cost to get the full set, since you know how many figures would be in a set.

The other option would be to indeed require you to have 4 Axe Beaks to use 4 Axe Beaks. That isn't as bad as wasted duplicates, but I don't see it being a very popular option that way, either.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Presumably we won't be limited in number of figures. If I need 4 Axe-beaks, I don't need to buy enough miniatures to get 4 Axe-beaks, I just need to buy enough to get one.

I'm not sure I'd make that assumption so readily.

It seems that D&DI may be a nickel and dime extravaganza in disguise. At some point they'll need to qualify how much you actually need to pay for the "full 4E experience" that D&DI is supposed to be bringing. Is it the base subscription? Or the base subscription with electronic books? Or the base subscription with electronic books and virtual miniatures?

The jury is out until we get more details but I can't say I'm too enthused by the direction the details in this thread are pointing so far.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Randomized digital miniatures? Yeah, no thanks, and that's really not going to make it easy for DDI to expand initially -- seems like a great way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Personally, I wish things would go the other way, and they'd allow people to import their own minis/tokens -- that way the NWN designers could port over monster designs from that game, and the geeks that are good with 3D modeling can design and skin the oddball stuff that WotC won't ever get around to.

 

[Imaro]

Wow, uhm...ok.

So let me step back and take inventory for a minute...

$10/month subscription fee...check
$1/book(estimate)...check
undisclosed price per mini, which may or may not have a random model...check

IMHO it looks like D&DI is going to cost more than what was initially implied. And yes, I know you don't have to have your virtual books or minis...but without this stuff I don't see it as any better than the free VTT.

I also think this is going to hit a DM's pockets more than any player, which only reaffirms my initial thought that I will gladly play but have no interest in actually running D&D 4e or any other games on DDI. This really does feel like one of those "great offers" that has a bunch of hidden fees in it. If tokens are the default they should have premiered those on the preview video so we could see what the default is.

As far as paying for the virtual minis...can't get behind it (The only thing that might sway me on this is that I can buy the whole set of virtual minis with one low fee and gain unlimited use as long as I'm a subscriber). It seems like a ploy to check the growing market of non-random pre-paints by Reaper and Rackham by forcing you to buy the random's if you want actual minis for your online game. I'm not paying for a virtual mini that serves no purpose and I don't get to keep if I ever decide the DDI isn't worth it. Also, if they're in any way random or linked to the boosters this just increases my annoyance and irritation at a model like this. I'm not a fan of random as is, and this model has no real reason to perpetuate that type of model except to increase profits at consumers exspense(mainly DM exspense).

Another problem I see with attaching it to boosters is...will it be the same code or a different one on each mini of the same type? If it's the same code on say all gnoll archers, this really won't be worth the loss of goodwill or effort as someone will eventually make the codes known on the internet or whatever. If it's the second it depreciates the value of a mini on the second hand market, as you don't know whether someone used the code or not, and really seems like more of a way to nudge and push people into actually buying boosters.

This is a real killer for me as far as running games over the DDI, YMMV of course but I just don't like it and don't plan on steadily spending money on a subscription model that throws in various fees left and right(because we still don't know what else will be charged for).

 

[Glyfair]

I'm not sure I'd make that assumption so readily.

Actually, I'm assuming that because if they go the other way, I won't be interested. I'll just use the tokens, thank you.

 

[Mercule]

Wow. I'm uncertain what to think of this, now. $10/month for Dragon and Dungeon together isn't so bad. As I've said elsewhere, I'd prefer my periodical content online, anyway. For Dungeon, I tend to heavily modify things like place names, deities, etc. and swap out some monsters or treasure. A cut/paste job from a PDF or web page saves me the time of retyping chunks of the module. Likewise, I tend to pick and choose from Dragon and PDFs are pretty easy to file in an order that makes a lot of sense to me.

Considering the amount of content I've historically used from Dragon and Dungeon, $10 is pushing my limit, but it sounds like the chargen and map/campaign tools are included, so that's all good.

Paying an extra buck or two per book to get it in an ultra-portable and cross-indexed format is worth it, too. Not to mention the boon if that price includes the chargen datasets, too.

If the quality stays high, I would expect that about $15/month for the whole shebang would be my limit. I've averaged about a book a month, plus Dungeon. If I move to a book every other month or less (likely anyway, because I'm tired of the rules glut -- maybe I'll move to only the PHBx, DMGx and Eberron books), the cost to me won't really change. I like that, especially since it sounds like the value (to me) would.

While I do have a few gamer friends who live in remote areas, my local group is currently full and takes up all my hobby time. So, I'm not a likely consumer of the VTT. If I were, though, I'd be outraged at the idea that someone would expect me to pay for random pixels. I can appreciate a premium cost associated with using the expanded minis sets and the work that goes into them. I just don't see any reason to keep the random aspect.

Still, I hope digicrack works for them. That would keep them in business and subsidize the portions of DDI that I will probably use.