Some high level play recommendations? (for players) *long*

[Rackhir]

Have them read some sections of

1) Piratecat's Story Hour
2) (contact's) The Liberation of Tehn
3) Sepulchrave II's Compiled Story Hour

Since all of these are long and somewhat involved (though ALL first rate stories), you might want to pick a story arc and email them that chunk. All three have compiled texts of the story if you poke around in the story hours or ask for it.

It sounds like (contact's) story hour might be the best suited to the kind of activity it seems like you are looking for from your players,

 

[Philip]

The first order of business to get them to behave like high level heroes is to treat them like them like great heroes.

They cannot wander into the tavern without most people fawning over them and their great powers and fancy equipment. They get requests for all kinds of small favors, have children who emulate them following them in the streets, have commoners go to great lengths to assist them. Have NPCs ask them to use resources supposedly at their disposal to help them. Have the local minor villains leave the town as soon as they arrive. Doing so is a positive way to coerce them in the right direction.

If you let them walk into the tavern without anyone raising an eyebrow, and didn't have the innkeeper offering them drinks on the house, or at least helping them open any door with his keys, I am not suprised they don't act like great inventive heroes, because they haven't been made to feel that way, regardless of their knowledge of high level play.

 

[Mystery Man]

The first order of business to get them to behave like high level heroes is to treat them like them like great heroes.

They cannot wander into the tavern without most people fawning over them and their great powers and fancy equipment. They get requests for all kinds of small favors, have children who emulate them following them in the streets, have commoners go to great lengths to assist them. Have NPCs ask them to use resources supposedly at their disposal to help them. Have the local minor villains leave the town as soon as they arrive. Doing so is a positive way to coerce them in the right direction.

If you let them walk into the tavern without anyone raising an eyebrow, and didn't have the innkeeper offering them drinks on the house, or at least helping them open any door with his keys, I am not suprised they don't act like great inventive heroes, because they haven't been made to feel that way, regardless of their knowledge of high level play.

I do all that already.

 

[Mystery Man]

Rather, give them advice as if they're asking the question, "How can I be a better high level player? What do I need to be better prepared for a number of high level situations?"

That kind of thing might be helpful.

 

[LostSoul]

I guess I'd suggest, out-of character, that they cast Scry the next time something like that happens so as not to lose 5 hours of game-time. (Unless they are enjoying it.)

After the game, I'd talk with them about the various options and tricks they can pull. Just to remind them what is up.

 

[Starman]

I second the recommendations to have your players read some excerpts from the Story Hours above. I found Sepulchrave's Story Hour especially good. It will show your players just how other players have used their high level powers.

I also second you using some high-level tactics against your players. You don't want to kill them, but one instance of an enemy using Buff-Scry-Teleport on them will demonstrate a high-level tactical way of thinking that should scare them and impress them into using such themselves.

Starman

 

[Sir Elton]

Rather, give them advice as if they're asking the question, "How can I be a better high level player? What do I need to be better prepared for a number of high level situations?"

That kind of thing might be helpful.

Dang, I'm not helping in this department.

Lets see. They need to watch a movie. Preferably a movie with characters who have over the top abilities. High level abilities.

Star Wars, Superman, X-Men, the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Big trouble in little china, Flash Gordon, just about any episode of Star Trek.

Help me out here.

 

[Delemental]

Rather, give them advice as if they're asking the question, "How can I be a better high level player? What do I need to be better prepared for a number of high level situations?"

That kind of thing might be helpful.

Okay, looking at it from this perspective...

Have the entire group sit down together and review each other's characters and what they can do. It can be difficult enough at higher levels remembering your own character's capabilities, let alone what your comrades can do. By looking things over, your players may discover forgotten magic items or spells they rarely use. At the same time, one person may have ideas for how another player's character can use an ability that player never thought of. Or come up with ideas of how to use multiple abilities in combination.

Also, look into combat maneuvers. Enemies that have ACs in the high 30s that laugh at you melee attacks can be tripped or bull rushed.

THe trick to effective high level play isn't that one spell or class ability. It's developing combinations, using several elements together. The party that rushes in to attack the orcs isn't as effective as the hasted, bear's enduranced, blessed party whose monk and rogue tag-team with a Stunning Fist/Sneak Attack routine, while the fighter bull-rushes opponents into the wizard's Evard's black tentacles spell with the sorcerer's cloudkill superimposed over it.

 

[BSF]

Well, as bad as it sounds, you might need to consider that your Players don't want to play High Level PC's. This isn't a slam against them, or you, it is a possible reality.

Playing a high level PC means you have to be well-versed in your abilities. Especially spellcasters! It does require that the players devote more energy to learning the ins and outs of the PC. If your players are unable/unwilling to devote this type of energy to the PC, then they will not be able to use the full set of options high level PCs have. It is unfortunate, but that sometimes happens.

Of course the issue could also be exactly what you are speaking of: the players have the will, but are lacking the direction. In this case, rejoice. The situation can be managed and improved.

First of all, when you find the group bogged down and locked in a train of thought, consider taking a break. Grab some dinner, watch some anime, take a smoke break, whatever. Sometimes you just need to step back and take the pressure off for a little bit.

Second of all, find a way to give them a solid butt whooping and then leave the conclusion for the next session. Impending death with a week to think about it sometimes provides quite an impetus to think creatively. Be warned, this is a risky tactic and with some groups could backfire immensely.

Thirdly, demonstrate some of the tactics you are looking for the PC's to adopt. I would avoid the chastisement. Instead, have a friendly NPC request an assist. Perhaps somebody just made the wrong enemy and they are buffing up the defenses on their sanctum. Trusting the PC's, the NPC asks for some temporary bodyguard work while defenses are being prepared. Or the PC's might be asked to help go on the offensive. Maybe they are asked to help with the buff portion of a friendly groups scry-buff-teleport plan. Or even contribute to the assault. Perhaps a lower level NPC asks for help with a scry to find his runaway daughter? Since the PCs are so powerful and compassionate, he was hoping they would be able and willing to help him? There are many possibilities where the PCs can have the tactics pointed out without it being a degrading experience.

Provide a challenge that can only be solved with more powerful magic. When one of my groups was moving into the higher level zone, I gave them a challenge that would be simple for higher level casters to solve. I setup a passageway that ended at a chasm. The Chasm was 40 or 60 feet across. They couldn't see the top and they couldn't see the bottom. The passageway continued on the other side, a good 20 feet to the right. The PCs debated this for quite a while. The passageway was situated where a jump wasn't feasible. Throwing a rope across wasn't feasible. Climbing was impractical except for very skilled characters. The group thought of several mundane solutions. They tried to disbelieve illusions. the looked for the secret panel that would make a bridge, etc. They couldn't believe there was no way to get across. Then with a shrug, the party wizard suggested that he just make a bridge with his wall of stone. Then they could pass back and forth at will. After they discussed it a little longer and came up with many solutions that demanded high level PCs, they began to "get it". The place they were at was a challenge that was not meant to be easy. You had to be good to get past all the challenges in that place. Later on, one of the players asked me how they were "supposed" to get across. I told the player that only power characters could get across. Which brings me to my last suggestion.

You might just sit down after the session and toss out some what-if scenarios and point out that the players are selling themselves short. Explain that the reason high levels are fun is that the PCs have so many options. As a DM, you worry less about "the solution" because the PCs will have many possible solutions. You provide a challenge and then watch with amazement at how effectively the players deal with those challenges. Then point out that you aren't dealing with Orcs in dungeons. The PCs can change the world. As players, they just need to get used to having that many options and then they need to just have fun. Of course, this only works if you are able to avoid all problems only having one solution and if you truly allow the PCs to change the world. But it is a growing experience for all the players, including the DM. So perhaps your best option is to simply be honest and communicate with the players.

I'm not sure which of these answers, if any, will help. But I hope one or more of them does. High level play is a lot of fun.

 

[pogre]

As players, they just need to get used to having that many options and then they need to just have fun. Of course, this only works if you are able to avoid all problems only having one solution and if you truly allow the PCs to change the world. But it is a growing experience for all the players, including the DM. So perhaps your best option is to simply be honest and communicate with the players.

I'm not sure which of these answers, if any, will help. But I hope one or more of them does. High level play is a lot of fun.

This hits it on the head. First, you need to determine IF your players want to play a high level campaign. The game does change at this level. I enjoy it, my players are looking forward to it, but it's not for everyone.

One other suggestion to help them realize their powers fully. Set-up fighting instruction schools, guilds, wizard colleges, etc. and have them give challenges for training. It could be even be accomplished via e-mail between sessions. The challenges could be constructed to require the use of their character's abilities to pass. This is a no risk way to help your players change their mind set.