Some rogue ideas/questions

[cmbarona]

1) I know Rogues have comparatively high attack bonuses once everything adds up. Do the benefits of taking Power Attack outweigh the costs in their case?

2) I'm interested in making a halfling quickblade (MP Paragon Path, page 94). I like the idea of the stance they get, but I'm curious about making melee basic attacks as a result. If I'm to do a little optimization, my Strength won't be incredibly high. Are there any ways available yet to supplement my Dex instead of Str? Or some ways to use At-wills instead of melee basic attacks? (I know of Horned Helm, but that's it).

3) I'm looking for ways to boost my AC, especially against OAs. How do the costs and benefits weigh out when considering getting a parrying dagger? Am I ulitmately better off investing in Con and getting myself a light shield? Are there any particularly useful enchantments for a dagger I intend to keep only in my off-hand? (I know Parrying is nice, but that's the only appealing one I've seen thus far).

 

[James McMurray]

1) I know Rogues have comparatively high attack bonuses once everything adds up. Do the benefits of taking Power Attack outweigh the costs in their case?

I wouldn't use it, but that's just me. Since you're not using a two-handed weapon, you're giving your opponents a 10% miss chance for an extra 4 damage. The first time your 3d6 + 3d8 + special effect ability misses because of it, you'll wish you hadn't taken it.

2) I'm interested in making a halfling quickblade (MP Paragon Path, page 94). I like the idea of the stance they get, but I'm curious about making melee basic attacks as a result. If I'm to do a little optimization, my Strength won't be incredibly high. Are there any ways available yet to supplement my Dex instead of Str? Or some ways to use At-wills instead of melee basic attacks? (I know of Horned Helm, but that's it).

Not that I know of. You could multi-class Swordmage and use Intelligent Blademaster so your MBAs use Int instead of Strength.

3) I'm looking for ways to boost my AC, especially against OAs. How do the costs and benefits weigh out when considering getting a parrying dagger? Am I ulitmately better off investing in Con and getting myself a light shield? Are there any particularly useful enchantments for a dagger I intend to keep only in my off-hand? (I know Parrying is nice, but that's the only appealing one I've seen thus far).

If your dex and charisma are high, you're halfling, and you're an artful dodger, you probably won't need any other boosts. The daggermaster in our paragon level campaign was pretty much untouchable by OAs. I think he had Defensive Mobility, but +Cha to AC is huge by itself when coupled with racial bonuses to Dex and Cha.

 

[Milambus]

1) I know Rogues have comparatively high attack bonuses once everything adds up. Do the benefits of taking Power Attack outweigh the costs in their case?

Level 1 Halfling Artful Dodger Rogue
20 Dex (+5), 16 Cha (+3), Backstabber feat

Using Sly Flourish
Hit: 9 vs AC (+5 dex, +3 dagger prof, +1 rogue dagger bonus)
Damage: 1d4 + 5(dex) + 3(cha) + 2d8(sneak attack with backstabber)
Low Dmg: 11
High Dmg: 28
Avg Dmg: 19.5

Power Attack: +2 damage, -2 attack
Attack: -10%
Damage: +10.2%
Expected Damage lost to Misses: -1.95
Total Damage Gain: 0.05

If the feat were free, maybe. However, pretty much any other damage feat would be better. Also, as soon as you start using a +1 dagger, the average damage rises to 20.5, resulting in -.05 damage average by using Power Attack.

So, no its not worth it =)

 

[cmbarona]

Ah, good to see some math on this. Thanks. And I'm no math whiz, but I assume the damage doesn't really improve at later tiers?

 

[cmbarona]

Hmm... not sure why I thought Shield proficiency was Con based... I'm planning on putting 14 in Str anyway, so I might be able to focus on that. However, that means I won't be able to get any of the Two-Weapon feats, either... Ah, decisions, decisions... To be honest, I'm only putting it in there to make my basic melee attacks a little better off. Otherwise, I think I could stand to make Strength my dump stat. Where are you, Weapon Finesse?

 

[abyssaldeath]

Hmm... not sure why I thought Shield proficiency was Con based... I'm planning on putting 14 in Str anyway, so I might be able to focus on that. However, that means I won't be able to get any of the Two-Weapon feats, either... Ah, decisions, decisions... To be honest, I'm only putting it in there to make my basic melee attacks a little better off. Otherwise, I think I could stand to make Strength my dump stat. Where are you, Weapon Finesse?

There is a spiked shield in the Adventurers Vault.

 

[DracoSuave]

Hmm... not sure why I thought Shield proficiency was Con based... I'm planning on putting 14 in Str anyway, so I might be able to focus on that. However, that means I won't be able to get any of the Two-Weapon feats, either... Ah, decisions, decisions... To be honest, I'm only putting it in there to make my basic melee attacks a little better off. Otherwise, I think I could stand to make Strength my dump stat. Where are you, Weapon Finesse?

That depends on your group make up.... basic melee attacks might not come up as often in your group if it's not warlorded up.

 

[cmbarona]

Actually, it's part of the Halfling Quickblade PP in Martial Power... There's a daily stance that allows me to make melee basic attacks when an OA misses me. I'm considering going with Daggermaster instead, but I have to admit that I really like the flavor of the Quickblade.

 

[darkwing]

Here's how I got more damage and more defense as a 10 strength Halfling rogue:

Two Weapon Fighting
Two Weapon Defense

I'm really happy with those choices so far

 

[cmbarona]

Here's how I got more damage and more defense as a 10 strength Halfling rogue:

Two Weapon Fighting
Two Weapon Defense

I'm really happy with those choices so far

Good to know, and I was considering getting a parrying dagger plus those feats. I guess I'm just concerned about my melee basic attacks, and less concerned about damage than hitting (since I can easily get combat advantage for sneak attack). I can avoid it, especially if someone else in the group picks a Cleric instead of a Warlord, but it also leaves me baffled about the Halfling Quickblade. Why give melee basic attacks to a character normally designed to forego good MBAs? Wouldn't it be just as easy to say we make a Dex vs. AC attack when an OA misses? We have an artful dodger in our group now, and the MBAs I grant him as a worlord aren't the best either. Maybe it's just an oversight by WotC?