Some specific questions about a few virtual tabletops, help appreciated!

[Aberzanzorax]

I have run a Midnight campaign using Maptools in the past. It failed due to networking issues.

My group would love to start it up again using a virtual tabletop.



I have heard about fantasy grounds and d20 pro from this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/288346-virtual-tabletop-software.html


My two relevant questions:
1. We failed due to "port forwarding" and "connectivity" issues. Sometimes players could not connect. Sometimes maps and tokens were just "question marks". I have at least one computer science major (graduate) and 2-4 computer savvy people in my group who read their forums. This issue was frequently resolved and then came up again. In the end we spent more time solving connectivity issues than playing.

From what you know, are these programs likely to have the same problems, no problems, or different problems?


2. I LOVE some of the beautiful features of maptools. I would certainly continue using it permanently, and be willing to pay/donate to it if we could just get everyone able to see the maps. BUT the main feature I want in either of these other two options is the ability to control vision. Maptools allowed for vision distances (incorporating low light and darkvision). It also provided a separate "layer" that allowed me, as DM, to draw vision blocking lines. It was an extra, but very worthwhile, step.

Do either of these programs have a "vision" mechanic that meets these needs?





THANK YOU so much for replies. This will dramatically help my group out in our next few years of playing!

 

[bouncyhead]

Our group tried Fantasy Grounds. Now we use d20Pro.

FG is very slick, a v well rendered table top with all bells and whistles. However, we found it v difficult to get ourselves up and running due to networking issues similar to those you mention above. We are similarly technically proficient.

We started using d20pro regularly about 6 months ago and, a couple of hitches notwithstanding, have had an easier time of things. The tool is not as sophisticated (at least cosmetically) as FG but serves our purpose pretty well. I would add the caveat that our GM grumbles that he has occasional problems refreshing player views and loading new creatures.

We don't use any of the play-admin functionality - no roster, initiative tracker, action resolution etc.. We just use it as a battlemap and for dice rolls - the rest is done 'manually' through chat and skype.

My instinct though is that all these hosted solutions have the potential to suffer from connectivity issues and it's just as likely that switching GMs (and therefore hosts) between FG and d20pro was the reason for our current, trouble-free, experiences.

 

[Zulithe]

bouncyhead, if you only use the map part itself... why spend so much money on d20 pro? maptool is free and can easily provide that functionality, plus a whole lot more when/if your group decides it wants it:

RPTools - Home

(just a fan! i am not affiliated with them in any way. i also own a FG II license, but think rptools has a more supportive and robust community, amongst other things... like being free)

 

[bouncyhead]

Good question! I guess the answer would be... inertia. We were fully intending to use all those features, but over time we felt they got in the way of the 'real' gaming experience without adding enough. I (and most others at our table) use HeroLab to run my PCs in any case. Or just good ol' character sheets (or PCPen as we call it).

Now we're set up, not having any connectivity issues and licenses are paid for, there's just no motivation to move.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Very helpful answers guys.


Our group finally got maptools working, but then they updated to a new version, or java updated, and people had problems again. This happened pretty frequently. Even deciding on a specific version of maptools (and not updating) did not solve this.

I'm dismayed, but thankful to hear the honest story of connectivity problems being likely.


2 followups:
Is d20pro dependent on some other program? For instance, where maptools uses java, every time java updated, we had issues.

Can you draw "vision blocking" from the token's perspective in d20 pro?



Thanks!

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Zulithe, apart from the community, how do the programs fantasygrounds and maptools themselves compare?

 

[Zulithe]

RE: networking issues, i'm sorry that I can't really help much there. What I can tell you is searching the forums and/or posting a thread on the forum for the particular VTT will turn up some useful info. At one point or another, I've had networking issues with every VTT I've used. Trial and error always works things out.

Fantasy Gounds has a good and supportive community, just to clarify. But virtual tabletop software is such a niche item that a program costing $35 can't accumulate the kind of community that a well-designed free alternative can. This has been my experience. This is important for a VTT since the community creates lots of custom content, and it makes it easier to find players who use it.

FG tries to emulate the entire gameplay experience, from the map to the rulebooks to the adventure modules to beyond. It has a very advanced featureset to keep track of character sheets, npcs, monsters, initiative order, adventures, rules information and more. IMO the map features really suck though, you basically have to design your maps in another program and import them as a static image. This probably works for most people.

Maptool focuses primarily on the map, with fewer features that aren't directly related to the map itself. Because of this, it has by far the most powerful mapping features, allowing you to design your maps with a great deal of flexibility. There are plenty of tutorials on this found here: RPTools Tutorials

While MapTool's other features are slightly rudimentary compared to FG, most of the basics are there: chat, dice rolling, initiative tracker, etc. MapTool does not have many features to help you keep track of the game rules themselves and depending on your style of play, this may be preferable. It's more similar to an actual table in that it provides a place for your maps and minis, while most of the other details are left to the DM and players to adjudicate themselves.

There are lots of other great VTT apps out there... but I have little experience with them. I'm sure some of their users could comment. D20 pro has caught my eye but it still looks a bit unpolished for a commercial app to me. For example the way it handles rulesets is very draconian. Needs to be more modular and easier to setup/switch rulesets. I'd love to be proven wrong someday, though.

Lasty, I apologize if this is getting off topic... this may need to be moved to the software forum at this rate.

 

[Asmor]

I have at least one computer science major (graduate) and 2-4 computer savvy people in my group

At the risk of being a bit tangential, as someone who worked IT for the CS department during college, neither CS students nor professors are necessarily predisposed towards being any good with computers. I still don't understand how someone can be so good at programming and be completely helpless when it comes to anything beyond the most basic computer tasks... but there ya go. It's like a pro rally racer who doesn't know how to drive in normal city traffic.

 

[Matchstick]

I have run a Midnight campaign using Maptools in the past. It failed due to networking issues.

My group would love to start it up again using a virtual tabletop.



I have heard about fantasy grounds and d20 pro from this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/288346-virtual-tabletop-software.html


My two relevant questions:
1. We failed due to "port forwarding" and "connectivity" issues. Sometimes players could not connect. Sometimes maps and tokens were just "question marks". I have at least one computer science major (graduate) and 2-4 computer savvy people in my group who read their forums. This issue was frequently resolved and then came up again. In the end we spent more time solving connectivity issues than playing.

From what you know, are these programs likely to have the same problems, no problems, or different problems?


2. I LOVE some of the beautiful features of maptools. I would certainly continue using it permanently, and be willing to pay/donate to it if we could just get everyone able to see the maps. BUT the main feature I want in either of these other two options is the ability to control vision. Maptools allowed for vision distances (incorporating low light and darkvision). It also provided a separate "layer" that allowed me, as DM, to draw vision blocking lines. It was an extra, but very worthwhile, step.

Do either of these programs have a "vision" mechanic that meets these needs?





THANK YOU so much for replies. This will dramatically help my group out in our next few years of playing!

As mentioned above, you're always going to have potential connection issues with VTT's. We use FG, and the only person that had to wrestle with connection setup was me (as the host). My setup at home is more complicated than it needs to be, but I was able to get FG set up in a half hour or less (mostly I needed to get the password for my router from the ISP). FG has done a lot to try and make this process as easy as possible:

- They have a "Test" button to, well, test the connection to the server (yourself).
- That same screen has your IP address and port and stuff right on it.
- They have an "alias" system you can use so players don't have to remember IP addresses (you can do IP if you want).
- They remember the last place you connected, so you don't have to re-enter information.
- I think the new version will try to use PnP to configure routers if possible.

With FG (and I would think with other VTT's as well) there really shouldn't be anything that the clients have to do. They're just connecting to an internet server and port. It's only the host that needs to be set up correctly (and thus may have the issues).

FG's maps do more than what I need for my game. I tend to run my game like a tabletop game, and we've never used minis or maps. We still wouldn't if we weren't using FG where I can quick draw up a map or make one in CC3. But for a map oriented game you should look at Maptool. Working with maps to that extent is that program's biggest strength (from what I understand, I haven't used it).

Again, I can't speak for Maptools, but the FG community is great.

 

[danzig138]

While MapTool's other features are slightly rudimentary compared to FG, most of the basics are there: chat, dice rolling, initiative tracker, etc. MapTool does not have many features to help you keep track of the game rules themselves and depending on your style of play, this may be preferable. It's more similar to an actual table in that it provides a place for your maps and minis, while most of the other details are left to the DM and players to adjudicate themselves.

I wanted to address this real quick. True, native maptool is pretty much all about the maps with some basic features included, depending on the game you're running, you can find some pretty extensive frameworks to use with it. I know both 3.5 and 4E have massive frameworks that can track and calculate a whole lot of info. I use a spiffy Call of Cthhulu framework that is very simple to use but does speed some things up. I've built basic frameworks for both Cinematic Unisystem and FASERIP that work pretty well.

I can't speak to the other programs. I gave FG a shot and didn't like it. Think I was already spoiled by maptool.

Concerning maptool connectivity, the only times we've had any issues, it was something on my end, involving changes to IP address on my network. The maptool community is pretty helpful with these things. And I've fgound that stopping java from automatically updating stops that particular issue. Anyway, I hope you find something that works for you.