D&D 5E Some thoughts on WotC's release schedule and the OGL

[DEFCON 1]

...but right now it's hard for a newcomer to the game to go the D&D website and find any mention of 40 years of available material. Nothing at all in the products page for the tabletop game; I'm assuming because they want to push sales of newly created products.

Yup... it's almost impossible to go onto the D&D website, click on the Product Info dropdown, go to Tabletop Games, and then see DnDClassics (PDFs) in a list of six things. No one will ever find it! And then if you click on that link, it's inconceivable that it'd take you to a new site that lists seven distinct Settings and six distinct Editions from which to find product. How could we possibly expect a new player to comprehend all of that?

 

[bogmad]

Yup... it's almost impossible to go onto the D&D website, click on the Product Info dropdown, go to Tabletop Games, and then see DnDClassics (PDFs) in a list of six things. No one will ever find it! And then if you click on that link, it's inconceivable that it'd take you to a new site that lists seven distinct Settings and six distinct Editions from which to find product. How could we possibly expect a new player to comprehend all of that?

Did I say anything was impossible? Nope. I was talking about the way things are presented.
I'm just saying, for a person new to the game who just goes to the website and goes to "tabletop games" there's nothing intuitive to say that DNDCLASSICS has anything to do with what he can use in his game now. Not knowing what DNDCLASSICS is, I see no reason to think it has anything to do with "Tabletop RPGs" much less 5th edition, since it seems to be a separate category listed alongside miniatures and boardgames. At least have a mention of what DNDCLASSICS IS that might make him want to click on the link.
Sure, he can get there, but there's no guidance. I'd want a person who's new to the game to look and see that it's "EASILY CONVERTIBLE! YEARS OF MATERIAL WITH EVERYTHING YOU COULD NEED TO PROVIDE THE GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE YOU WANT WITH THE NEW 5TH EDITION RULES"

 

[Mercurius]

No... I'd say the perennial problem has always been experienced players thinking new players need way more hand-holding than they do. They've always condescendingly treated the "newbie" as though they were a Faberge egg that was going to shatter at the slightest provocation. Everything's always "Have to help the newbie! Have to make it so simple for the newbie otherwise they'll quit!" When in point of fact... I don't think they're nearly that fragile and have to be "protected".

A new group can pick up the Starter Set and play the five levels of Lost Mines. After that, if they decide they like D&D and want to keep playing... the DM checks out dnd.wizards.com for more information, downloads the Basic Rules, and then either decides to pick up HotDQ and play that, or else chooses to make up some new encounters themself for the players using the monsters from the Basic Rules. And then if they go all-in one or more of them decide to buy the Holy Trinity.

I fail to see why there's anything in this that is going to confuse those players or drive them away that a gazeteer wouldn't suddenly "fix". Especially considering that if they *truly are* new players... they have had no experience in having more product available to look through. So you can't come to the conclusion that something is missing if you've never experienced having it in the first place.

Hmm...some good points and I somewhat agree, but I still think there needs to be an easier path of entry. I just don't think the approach of "new rule set, but you convert the material" will work out long-term. At the very least, WotC should provide a core product line that sets the bar for 5E products: the core rules, adventures, settings, and theme and splat books. They don't need to do a lot of all of them, but at least some of each to give some options and show how its done.

I even like the idea of some kind of product map where a new player could visually see how to proceed. You have the Starter Set in the middle. Then you have three regions: in one you have a line to Basic Rules, then from there to the core rule books, with splats and theme books radiating outward. Then in another you have story arcs and adventures, as well as "Rosetta Stone" PDF for conversion and a path to dndclassics.com. Then in the third zone you have a variety of setting gazetteers, with paths to more detailed material, including dndnclassics.com. Somewhere in there you have paths to non-WotC sources, 3PPs etc.

I do think that part of the fun of getting into the hobby is figuring it all out, but that's only for a certain type of personality. Some people like it spelled out for them.

Just thinking out loud here...

That's the sort of half-truth assessment that led to the GSL in the first place and it would be exhibiting a special kind of thinking to move forward with that as the premise. It sets the stage for something other than the actual OGL being used. I fear the day it happens.


There is no "3E" OGL, just the OGL. The GSL was supposedly "an" OGL or "the next" OGL. It is absolutely ridiculous to try and soft pedal that line of thinking a second time.

I'm a bit lost, to be honest. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

If this is true, then it seems to me that they're still taking the wrong approach. I agree, they have plenty of material most anyone could use for his or her campaign, but I only know that because I'm lurking on places like ENworld. They should be getting those conversion guides out and then pushing the availability of D&DClassics. Well, hopefully I'm just impatient and they have a big push for that planned when the guides come out, but right now it's hard for a newcomer to the game to go the D&D website and find any mention of 40 years of available material. Nothing at all in the products page for the tabletop game; I'm assuming because they want to push sales of newly created products.

Yes, true. This is what I was trying to get at - see my "product map" above.

 

[Mark CMG]

I'm a bit lost, to be honest. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

There is the OGL. Period. To use "OGL" with "an OGL," "the next OGL, "the 3E OGL" or elsewise is the same purposefully obfuscating language that led to the disaster that was the GSL. We'll use some form of the OGL, was the terminology used in the lead up to 4E that got WotC in their current position. It's definitely too late for them to get the full benefit that the OGL could have given them for 5E but if they don't screw things up with obfuscation and more dithering, they might be able to actually help themselves out of their predicament.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

I have no idea what is going on in the minds of WotC... this is the first edition of D&D where we aren't being swarmed by sourcebook after sourcebook after sourcebook on a monthly basis and it's actually pretty weird. In one hand it's nice I guess that they aren't releasing so many books, but on the other hand it seems like they are going to the opposite end of the spectrum by releasing relatively few books... so few that the game just might flounder and eventually just die a slow, crawling death. The fact that it's not even WotC doing the adventures but other companies it's equally bizarre to me, and their recent letting go of two people who worked for them on this latest edition of the game just makes me wonder if they are actually going to release anything at all in this calendar year.

I think they are already shooting themselves in the foot and knees and the only thing that might save this edition is a OGL. Who knows though... I am just guessing.

 

[exile]

The release/marketing paradigm this time around seems to be big adventure paths and free (but exclusive) smaller adventures, all of which feed directly into the AL program. Get people into brick and mortar stores and get them to buy minis, boardgames, and Attack Wing. They are starving people who want additional material for home games (and I realize that not everyone wants said material; I'm not sure if I do or not).

What I'm not sure of is this. How much does WotC benefit from sales of things like minis and Attack Wing made by companies like WizKids and GF9? Again, I'm not sure. I've said it elsewhere before, but I really think with this edition, WotC is really more interested in supporting brick and mortar stores than they are the edition itself. Why? Brick and mortar stores are the lifeblood of Magic, and that cash cow cannot be allowed to die.

Note: this all sounds pretty cynical, and in a lot of ways it probably is; but I say it as someone who loves D&D, likes the new edition, lives RPGs, and even likes Magic.

Not too many years ago, I probably wouldn't have been complaining about this, but personal circumstances have changed. Where once I lived near games stores, I no longer do. When I did try to run Encounters (in the town from which I recently moved), I felt more like an unpaid babysitter of some pretty annoying kids than a DM (god bless the teachers); I had zero fun. That is not to say that I am unwilling to support and grow the game. I have. I still do. I am about to introduce 3-4 new players to PFS this weekend... from the comfort of my own home.

This post is pissy because I am unhappy. I am bitter. I dislike the current structure of AL play, but love organized play in general-! And believe that it can and should exist side by side with home play. I am not posting to tear down what AL is trying to build. I am trying to plead to them. Guys, there is a fragment of your market (or maybe it is just me) who has been disenfranchised by the way you are currently doing things.

 

[Queer Venger]

Something tells me you aren't going to get any of those. You are going to get adventure paths. You are going to get an article on the website maybe once a month. They aren't going to put out stuff for the GM. The 3 core books were made to be as encompassing as they can make it so they don't have to put out anything else. You either have to buy into their season adventure paths or go somewhere else for your inspiration.

methinks you long for the days of yore when TSR put out 3 books per month. Alas, those days of yore are gone. For my part, I much prefer that all I need are my 5e Holy Trinity ™. Adventure paths are nice, but I dont need them. Setting books are nice, but I have a virtual library of campaign supplements (all the FR campaign pdfs for starters). So bring on the OGL, it will add some spice to an already great 5e core system.

 

[Mercurius]

I have no idea what is going on in the minds of WotC... this is the first edition of D&D where we aren't being swarmed by sourcebook after sourcebook after sourcebook on a monthly basis and it's actually pretty weird. In one hand it's nice I guess that they aren't releasing so many books, but on the other hand it seems like they are going to the opposite end of the spectrum by releasing relatively few books... so few that the game just might flounder and eventually just die a slow, crawling death. The fact that it's not even WotC doing the adventures but other companies it's equally bizarre to me, and their recent letting go of two people who worked for them on this latest edition of the game just makes me wonder if they are actually going to release anything at all in this calendar year.

I think they are already shooting themselves in the foot and knees and the only thing that might save this edition is a OGL. Who knows though... I am just guessing.

I'm really of two minds about this. The pessimist in me fears that what you are saying is true, and that this "radio silence" is the 5E version of the mishandling of D&D, and WotC is only going to keep the game afloat and focus entirely on licensed stuff. The optimist in me thinks (or hopes) that the radio silence is simply a time of re-configuration and planning, that 5E was--as they say--more successful than planned for, and now they have to shift direction a bit and very soon we will not only get an OGL, but a more steady stream of quality products.

Again, I do like a reduced product schedule, with a "quality over quantity" approach. I think less is often more, but not too much less. I still think the optimal yearly release schedule would be about a new product a month, but rather than the "hardcover of the month" approach of 3.5 and 4, more diversified offerings. Something like this:

2 hardcover splats (PHB 2, MM 2, Manual of the Planes)
2 setting books: a regional gazetteer and later setting bible
2 story arcs (preferably as box sets)
2-4 one-shot adventures (modules, baby!)
1-2 miscellaneous products (e.g. DM screen)
1 nostalgia/collector's piece for the Holidays...something like the "Worlds of D&D" that gives short descriptions, maps and art of every D&D world, a mega-box set of Greyhawk, etc.

I'm probably living in the past, though, although it is worth noting that the above schedule is more moderate than Pathfinder and 2E - 4E.

 

[BryonD]

My recreational and highly under-informed opinion:

They are not really mishandling D&D. They are simply somewhat risk-averse and they somewhat don't really care.
They have a solid ballpark on the revenue they can generate from the game.
They have a solid ballpark on the cost to maintain new material and the increased expected revenue for new material.
They have some benchmark for the long-term value of the D&D brand.

The game and us as a market are nice. They like us. They like our money. We are not changing their world. But we provide a nice side income.
The amount that they can really move the needle on revenue isn't really enough to get worked up over. But doing just enough to keep the name out as a leading player in the market is important to maintaining the long term brand value.
As much as they would be quite happy to beat Pathfinder in Q3 of this year, their real concern is being more recognizable as the "geek fantasy" brand than Pathfinder in 2020. In our little teapot full of edition-war tempests, PF kicked D&D butt. Out there in the real world Pathfinder made some very real handholds into being recognized as the "geek fantasy" brand. But that is all, just handholds.
For the moment 5E has given D&D enough boost to maintain the head and shoulders advantage in being recognized by the populace at large. And the lead is still sufficiently overwhelming on that front that they can easily maintain it without major investment.

So they are not investing in getting your dollars. They are investing in using a reliable flow of your dollars to protect the brand.

Even if more investment in product would be profitable, it probably doesn't offer the same return on investment as some of their other properties. So spend the money there.
Pay a few people to keep churning out a steady trickle content. Even if they put a solid fraction of that content is given away, the brand value is provided and you don't have to worry about up front costs for printing and distributing, etc, etc... (Again, not saying they would lose money, just talking relative margins)

As to the OGL, it matters to the brand. There is a lot of talk that Pathfinder beat 4E because of the unfair advantage created by the OGL. People will play the game they prefer. If they had a preference for D&D, they would play D&D, OGL or no OGL. But, the OGL did leverage a jumpstart of a new-name into a grey zone of D&D's dynasty. Regardless of where we swim in out teapot, Pathfinder can be perceived as connected to the history of D&D and part of that legacy in a way that GURPs certainly can not. That may not bring the brand down, but it does create a threat.

So they are not spending a lot of time worrying about how an OGL release of 5E would hurt their planned products for 2016. It would probably be great to have someone else supporting the core system and carrying all those printing costs. But they don't want yet another game hogging the claim to historic legacy, or possibly even worse, a Pathfinder second edition using parts of 5E to becoming even more recognized as a mainstream idenity of "geek fantasy".

 

[redrick]

I'm really of two minds about this. The pessimist in me fears that what you are saying is true, and that this "radio silence" is the 5E version of the mishandling of D&D, and WotC is only going to keep the game afloat and focus entirely on licensed stuff.

I feel like I see a lot of comments on this forum to the effect of WoTC "mishandling" 5th Edition, and I am curious, when I read them, how much of this is because the authors are not currently getting what they want out of their game at the table, and how much is a general perceived sense that the RPG as a whole is suffering?

In other words, how many people out there are wanting to play D&D 5th Edition, but choosing not to, because there are not enough D&D 5th Edition products available. Or, even worse, how many people picked up, say, the starter set, said to themselves, "this is a fine roleplaying game!", but then went back to playing another game because there weren't enough published adventures, settings or character options to choose from?

For myself, I am a relative newcomer to modern D&D, having played as a kid, but completely walked away from the hobby for my teens and early adult life. I played a little 4th Edition, but then heard about D&D Next and decided to wait for that to come out, then picked up the starter set as soon as it came out. While waiting for my starter set group to come together, I remembered my old copy of Keep on the Borderlands and realized that it would be pretty easy to run it using the 5th Edition rules. I ended up running it as a campaign on Roll20, and we've been running that same campaign for over 6 months now. It's not hard to google up many lists of "best D&D adventures", and now we're playing Castle Amber, which I purchased off dndclassics. I grabbed a couple of the Mystara gazetteers as well, and we might just run some homebrew adventures after the group makes it out of Chateau d'Amberville. There's definitely some work to come up with monster stats for X2, because many of the Mystara monsters are not in the Monster Manual, but it's not so bad. And, honestly, when it comes to new DMs, I don't think the problem is bad monster mechanics. Our games suffer because of bad listening, bad improvising, etc. Not because my Rakasta had the wrong to hit bonus or a stupid trait.

So, yes, I would love more 5e adventures to choose from, and I'd love some well-made 5e campaign settings, possibly with custom classes and races that make that setting feel unique. But I don't think the lack of them is going to stop me from playing the game, at least not in the near future.