Somebodies got PHB3!

[unan oranis]

I created a pile of characters recently, only one chose a skill power over it's own class choices (though there were several close calls).

I don't know if they are that much weaker, they all seemed pretty cool.

These were just the preview ones in the CB though... I'm glad there's a feat coming to let you pick one up for "free". I'm not sure if they'd see a lot of play otherwise and it's a fun concept.

 

[Jhaelen]

Edit: If anything, what you are describing would be better referred to as "option creep", which is not a bad thing.

I don't really care how it's called.

Look: Given a choice of having three powers available every encounter and having four powers available, which would you prefer?

Unless skill powers are strictly worse than the options you'd have without them, they represent <whatever> creep.
So far, I'm not aware of any method in the game to get more powers than what you get from your race and class. So every new mechanism that does that represents <whatever> creep.

Note that I haven't seen any of them - are they even encounter powers?

P.S.: Looking over the aggressive/defensive replies, maybe I should mention that I think they're a great idea and I'm not (yet) worried about them in the least.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't really care how it's called.

Look: Given a choice of having three powers available every encounter and having four powers available, which would you prefer?

Unless skill powers are strictly worse than the options you'd have without them, they represent <whatever> creep.
So far, I'm not aware of any method in the game to get more powers than what you get from your race and class. So every new mechanism that does that represents <whatever> creep.

Note that I haven't seen any of them - are they even encounter powers?

P.S.: Looking over the aggressive/defensive replies, maybe I should mention that I think they're a great idea and I'm not (yet) worried about them in the least.

With your chosen terminology, you have to add the last sentence to avoid confusion. The association with the term "power creep" is that it's bad and that it is undesirable.

New options, new powers, new spells, new classes are not automatically considered "creep" because they are something that didn't exist before, or because there is now more of something they before. It becomes "creep" when it has a negative impact, for example changing the power balance, or making the system unwieldly or something like that. Of course what causes "creep" can be subjective, but - that's exactly what causes the reaction. Other people disagree, because their subjective impression is not that it's negative, and they think you might be misunderstanding the benefits.

 

[Brig]

Look: Given a choice of having three powers available every encounter and having four powers available, which would you prefer?

It depends on which feat I have to not take for my character in order to get the extra power. Personally there are numerous feats that would come first over the skill powers I have seen so far. Late tier feat selection may be where you consider them more but early tier feat selection usually has a number of no brainers that give you benefits on every attack or constant benefits not just a use per encounter.

 

[Starfox]

Psionic race made of crystals. Like, crystal golems.

The females wear a corset and have breasts.

If someone made them, its fair to assume they'd be antropomorphic - and gynomorphic. If they somehow make themselves, its not unreasonable to adjust to the cultural norms of their neighbors. If they are spirits animating objects, it is not unreasonable that these spirits have male and female natures and take the corresponding forms - like dryads take female forms.

And even if none of this is true - if they were just generally humanoid in form - the basic female shape is just as humanoid as the male shape. The odd thing then would not be that they have breasts, but that they have sexual dimorphism.

 

[C.W.Richeson]

I don't find the Skill Powers to be unbalancing. At best most of them are a hard choice or offer something merely competitive with existing powers. Losing a Feat to pick one up is rough as, by now, there are a lot of nice Feat options that can boost other aspects of a character and any character can already only use so many different powers in an encounter (especially at higher levels).

Anything that adds more options is, to an extent, power creep in that gaining access to these options can make a build stronger. Are the PHB 3 options notably superior to existing options? I think the only way to know for sure is through extensive play, but from a few sessions of play with it and messing around with the tools presented nothing is jumping out. The Runepriest seems pretty strong in Heroic tier play, Superior Implements will be chosen by many casters, and some builds will prefer certain Skill Powers. The Shardmind is hideously effective at being a Psion. On the whole, I'm happy with the book and will be making use of it in future games.

 

[Piratecat]

And even if none of this is true - if they were just generally humanoid in form - the basic female shape is just as humanoid as the male shape. The odd thing then would not be that they have breasts, but that they have sexual dimorphism.

All I know is that the phrase "built like a brick ****house!" is now destined to make an appearance in my game. Not sure how you'd avoid it, really.

 

[Rechan]

All I know is that the phrase "built like a brick ****house!" is now destined to make an appearance in my game. Not sure how you'd avoid it, really.

I never really got that analogy.

"So... so she's a sturdy place to poop?"

 

[Dragonhelm]

Don't make me tell the Flying Outhouse story.

(True story, can't make something like that up!)

 

[MrMyth]

What are the one or two overpowered combinations in your opinion? I ask only because I have gone out of my way to avoid unpublished preview content like hybrid classes. When DM (which is normally) I tend to allow 98% of all WotC published content ... but only after I've digested the books contents or its been put into CB and/or gone through some 'peer review.'

Some examples: Rogue|Ranger or Ranger|Fighter, focused on choosing minor action or immediate action encounter power attacks. The main limitation of many of the hybrid abilities is that they can only be used with powers of that class. This is a very elegant approach - typically, a Rogue|Ranger could thus use rogue powers when he has combat advantage (and gain sneak attack damage), and then switch to ranger powers when he does not (and gain hunter's quarry damage). Similarly, a Ranger|Fighter can use a fighter power and mark his enemy when he wants to serve as a defender, and then switch to a ranger power and use hunter's quarry when he wants to be a striker.

The problem is that minor action attacks throw off that balance - the Rogue|Ranger can use a standard action Rogue attack and use Sneak Attack, and then a minor action Ranger attack and use Hunter's Quarry. So double the striker damage in one round - he might run out of such powers after 3-4 rounds, but has had a significant damage boost until then. Or the Ranger|Fighter who keeps up striker-level damage while still able to mark his enemies.

Of course, none of this is the end of the world. Getting Hunter's Quarry on top of Sneak Attack translates to an extra 1d8-3d8 damage - there are plenty of non-Hybrid builds that can get similar damage bonuses in a variety of ways. It is only really so powerful because the strategy of spamming minor action or immediate action attacks, in addition to your normal standard action attacks, was already pretty high up on the damage meter.

Similarly, there are plenty of other ways to add marking ability to a non-defender, if one really wants to. The hybrid Fighter|Ranger isn't breaking the game. But it does come across as a bit overpowered to fully get the best of both worlds, and an oversight in the design for the way hybrid abilities work.

I think the Hybrid rules are certainly still worth allowing - they allow a lot of fun, flavorful builds, and in the end, an optimizer can design something overpowered with or without them.