Something Awful leak.

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And you're back to my original point. No one's giving you ADDITIONAL stuff to track. You still have those same six numbers on your sheet. Now you just don't have three more derived defense stats.

In 4E I don't have to keep track of my Dexterity modifier during combat. If my dexterity ever comes up, it's when I tie someone in initiative.

In 5E, I have to keep track of all the bonuses and negatives that buffs and enemies and situational effects are having on my Dexterity score.

In 4E, I might have:
+2 power bonus to AC from a defensive spell
+1 bonus to Reflex thanks to the Warlord
-1 penalty to Fortitude from some poison
-2 to Will because a Mind Flayer is making me see things.

In 5E, I might have:
+2 power bonus to AC from a defensive spell
+1 bonus to Strength thanks to the Warlord
+2 Bonus to Reflex from a Potion of Red Bull
-1 penalty to Constitution from some poison
-2 to Intelligence because a Mind Flayer is eating my smarts.
+1 to Wisdom thanks to the Cleric
-1 to Charisma because an umberhulk is mocking my hairstyle
 

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If you had such an extreme example come up in a game, then it would suggest that you have a system with options and color for effects, instead of limiting yourself to only things that affect your four numbers. But whatever. The point about wanting to play a system that doesn't use the six basic stats still applies.
 

That is assuming a lot. Even in 3.5 you didn´t have all those modifiers at once. And actually it was never hard to track. It is harder in 4e, because those modifiers change every other round.

In 3.5 you could just use a pencil and write down what is effecting you.

The only problematic thing in 3.5 is that other stats are derived from your attributes. So if someone only changes your dexterity, you have to adjust:

initiative
AC
reflex
ranged attacks
tumble skill
maybe a DC for a maneuver
 

I want the rules to be the same if you add a barbarian level to a troll or a human.
What do barbarian levels represent? Toughness. Some weapon training. A love of battle.

If I want my troll to be tougher, more loving of battle, and better trained in weapon use than its raw statblock would suggest, I can add these abilities in easily enough (eg make it elite and give it some sort of swordplay-modelling triggered action).

I don't want to be applying class levels which were designed for some completely different purpose, namely, building tough, weapon-trained, battle-loving player characters.

I disagree vehemently that monsters shouldn't follow evolutionary patterns. It's a viable world that (while magical) should have an actual ecosystem.
I'm not remotely interested in evolutionary patterns, nor in ecosystems. I'm interested in myth and fantasy adventure.

A blacksmith should never be a minion. He's one of the "elite guard" in the town militia of a small village (because he's the toughest guy in the village) which means that he should be able to fight and not easily be killed by the first local kid throwing a stone.
Minion isn't an inworld status, it's a metagame status to be used in action resolution. Hit points are part of the same set of mechanics. Local kids throwing stones at NPC don't involve the action resolution mechanics, and doubly, therefore, don't do hp damage to anything.

Another advantage of this system is as you stated, the ability to remove special minion rules like "does not take damage on a miss". That's just another arbitrary 4E rule that doesn't necessarily make sense. Everyone else takes damage on a miss with a Fireball, but the minion is immune. Why?
Again, this is a metagame thing. Like anyone else, a minion suffers pain and burns from being caught in a fireball.

If a fireball is cast at 2 normal foes and 2 minions, and the GM describes the 2 normal foes suffering burns and the minions standing there unscathed, then something has gone wrong with the GM's descriptions.

This could produce wonky outcomes, in the corner case in which a minion is caught in fireball after fireball, but the attacker never manages to hit, and so the minion survives blast after blast - the Rasputin of that particular battlefield. In practice, has this ever happened at anyone's table? And even if it did, it strikes me as a story opporunity as much as a problem - everyone else died in the battle, but this one schmuck managed to survive through sheer luck!

I don't know if that house cat is going to be a skill challenge or a combat challenge or a possible familiar or an ally for the druid or secretly a polymorphed archmage or whatever...until the rubber hits the road. This works against an improv-heavy game. I don't know what this housecat is going to have to do before I put it in the game. Once it's in the game, I'm going to need some way to figure out what happens to it, no matter what the players do to it.
This may be true, but I don't understand what it has to do with statting up housecats for combat.

If the housecat becomes a familiar, look up the stats in Arcane Power. If it is a skill challenge, use the DCs and damage rules from the DMG. If it is (in some bizarre way) a combat encounter, use the Wolf statblock and drop it from level 2 to level 1 (and narrate the bite as a claw instead).

Whatever one thinks of 4e's action resolution mechanics, it hardly has a shortage of them!
 

Hey guys, as someone who has been using the six stats as defenses for Castles and Crusades for years, it's actually easier to keep track of stats for defense than the Fort/Ref/Will saves. You still have to keep track of your stats, especially if you're hit with any debilitation type effects.

It's also a great tool to effectively negate stat min-maxers. I've had min maxing players complain that they're now not the best at everything. It keeps a prudent player accepting only above average scores rather than risking a dump stat.
 

Assuming your stats are targeted by save or die spells, stats that don't go up as you level as saving throws or defences have, that sounds pretty deadly. I'm not sure how they are going to work that.
 


I have four stats. AC. Ref. Fort. Will. I have one saving throw target number. I left the piles of saving throws in the dust along with Parachute Pants. I don't want that complexity back anymore than I want to have to use a telegraph now that I have the internet.

It's having to track seven numbers instead of four numbers. Increasing my number-tracking burden by 75% doesn't do me any favors. The low stat issue just means that they'll have to add in some bonuses which will make your actual stats useless references anyway.
Ah, the beauty of 1e.

In the run of play - as a player - I only really ought to* keep three things memorized: to-hit bonus, damage bonus, and AC. My actual stats only come into play on an ability check, and it's trivially easy to glance at my sheet to see what a given stat is if I don't happen to remember it.

* - but often don't, as they are also trivially easy to look up.

What this issue speaks to more is one of being able to keep the character sheet clear, simple, and on one side of one page (equipment list, finances, and experience record can go on the back as they are rarely if ever referenced during play).

Lanefan
 

Minion isn't an inworld status, it's a metagame status to be used in action resolution. Hit points are part of the same set of mechanics. Local kids throwing stones at NPC don't involve the action resolution mechanics, and doubly, therefore, don't do hp damage to anything.
Disagree. Every living being has hit points and can take h.p. damage. Every non-living thing has damage points (or structural points, depending) and can take structural damage. Local kids throwing stones at an NPC *do* cause h.p. damage, assuming they hit now and then; the only difference is that because it doesn't really affect the run of play very much you probably don't need to track the specifics.

Again, this is a metagame thing. Like anyone else, a minion suffers pain and burns from being caught in a fireball.
OK, minions dying in a fire, and the concept dying with them - now you're on to something! :)

Lanefan
 

Am I the only one thinking it somewhat amusing that this leak complains of the playtest being for and by grognards while ranting like a 110% grognard?

The leak should have been titled "Who cares about the game, I want edition warfare!"
 

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