Something I've Never Seen in an RPG System

[LostSoul]

I played a game of Dogs in the Vineyard a few nights ago, but instead of quasi-mormon gunslingers we were Jedi. Anyways, at one point we were trying to discover if one of the NPCs was tainted by the Dark Side, so we're describing our actions in terms of psychic Force use. The Dark Side using NPC was pushing back against us.

'I empty myself and focus on the Dark Side. I've felt its taint before; I know what I'm looking for.'
<roll some dice for having the trait "Familiar with the Dark Side 2d4", push forward some dice as my "attack">
'You sense the presence of the Dark Side - you know it's here - but you can't pinpoint where it's coming from.'

As far as determination goes... I could have started beating on the NPC with my fists/blaster/lightsaber for more dice, but I didn't want to. I wasn't willing to go there.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There are two situations that come up in fantasy books, or in shows, but I've never seen them play out in RPGs.

1) The Contest of Power and Wills. This happens more in superhero shows, but you can find it enough when two wizards battle.

Enemy A and enemy B shoot some sort of force at one another. The two collide, and the two characters continue to shoot. A "Tug of War" commences, where enemy B pushes harder, making Enemy A lose ground, the joining of the beams get closer to him. Then Enemy A pushes back hard, shoving the beams back towards Enemy B.

Torg had one "attack skill" called "Test of Wills". Of course, it works for anyone, not just mages. While ultimiately, d20 rolls are important here, the effects might match your description. Test of Wills causes penalties like "Unskilled" and "Stymied", if I remember correctly. Unskilled character can't use their skill adds (and Test of Wills is a skill), and "Stymied" characters get no skill rerolls on a 10 or 20 (rerolls are added, and often very important to bring a character down.)
And if you roll high enough, you get a "players call" result - which means you can take the enemy out of the fight (and can describe it in any fashion you like)

Of course, your enemy is not forced to used Test of Wills himself (except for defense) - he could use his own action to shoot at you or try to outmaneuver you (or one of your allies).

The penalties of Test of Wills (and other non-damaging attack types) are usually not enough to take someone out of the fight, but they certainly get a easier to handle (unskilled and stymied negate the most important advantages for anyone.)

2) Countering Existing Magic.

This occurs when a magical effect is active (a ritual, an active spell, a powerful arcane monster, a magical gateway), and the spellcasting character is spending putting all of his efforts into weakening the effect.

The effort here is not necessarily to snap your fingers, cast a spell, and make a magical effect go poof. Merely, that he is reducing the effectiveness, or putting a lot of time into defusing the effect completely, while his allies are either A) Keeping the oncoming enemy away so he can work, or B) Weaken a foe/widen a gate or force it closed/drain the power from a ritual/artifact or amplify/recharge the MacGuffin.

The draining and amplifying part both exist in Shadowrun (at least 3e), if I am not mistaken. The concept is used both for magical wards and for spirits and elementals. (binding and banishing them)

 

[pemerton]

I thought of HeroWars/Quest also.

It sounds to me like what the OP wants is a struggle where the results are based (almost) entirely around what the PC can bring to bear. That suggests to me that having a die roll be the final arbitrator of the numbers is a bad idea, as it's based around luck. I think that instead, it should come down to having "points" or a similar mechanical pool that can be spent by the character; overshadowing (if not entirely eliminating) a die roll to add random modifiers. That makes it more about properly rationing power, and allowing for larger expenditures when dramatic results are needed, particularly if those dramatic expenditures are spread out over a short period of time.

HeroWars has this.

 

[deadplayer]

I thought the Keep on the Shadowfell skill challenge was an attempt to use the skill challenge mechanic to run a "countering existing magic" scenario. While I thought the skill challenge itself was too tough, the basic idea was there.

Agree!

 

[renatoram]

I thought of HeroWars/Quest also.

HeroWars has this.

Also, Fate v3/Spirit of the Century.

There is a dice roll, but it's tailored so that wild chance matters less than the base skill, AND the Aspect mechanic allows you to bring to the challenge any relevant part of your character background (like, say, invoking "Fiercely Loyal" to get a +2 because you are defending your friends, "Never steps down" to get another +2, and "My beloved Alyria" to get another, because you think of how the bad guy will make your loved one's life miserable if you fail. And so on.

And, bear in mind, dice will give you +4, max, and +0 as an average, so even a +2 is very relevant.

 

[fuindordm]

Actually, the first thing that came to mind from this post was...

Shadowrun. Seriously, deckers are the quintessential mages in this regard. They go off and do their own thing, probably a very important thing, but the rest of the party twiddles their thumbs while they overcome the technological obstacle. It takes a good bit of time, and is an interesting challenge for that PC.

In a well-run story, of course, the other players will have something to do at the same time--fighting off mooks, etc.

Ben

 

[pemerton]

Also, Fate v3/Spirit of the Century.

There is a dice roll, but it's tailored so that wild chance matters less than the base skill, AND the Aspect mechanic allows you to bring to the challenge any relevant part of your character background (like, say, invoking "Fiercely Loyal" to get a +2 because you are defending your friends, "Never steps down" to get another +2, and "My beloved Alyria" to get another, because you think of how the bad guy will make your loved one's life miserable if you fail. And so on.

And, bear in mind, dice will give you +4, max, and +0 as an average, so even a +2 is very relevant.

That sounds a little like Spiritual Attributes in The Riddle of Steel.

HeroWars also allows these sorts of augmentations, but a dice roll is required for the augmenting attribute (so you roll your "Fiercely Loyal" skill, a bit like Aid Another). In addition there are Hero Points that can be used to "bump" the result of the roll (at the player's discretion).

Putting some of the posts together (yours, mine, Lost Soul, other references to Hero Wars, TRoS etc) the answer seems to be: if the game has a Fortune in the Middle mechanic combined with a thematically-flavoured way for the player to boost his/her PC's rolls, which is to say if the game is a fairly typical contemporary RPG, then it can probably handle these sorts of situations.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) The Contest of Power and Wills. This happens more in superhero shows, but you can find it enough when two wizards battle.

Enemy A and enemy B shoot some sort of force at one another. The two collide, and the two characters continue to shoot. A "Tug of War" commences, where enemy B pushes harder, making Enemy A lose ground, the joining of the beams get closer to him. Then Enemy A pushes back hard, shoving the beams back towards Enemy B.

You can do this with HERO, but it proabaly has to be built into a power as a limitation- something that could be done at the campaign level or on an individual level- unless its part of the power itself already...like a Mind Control.

For example, I had a PAG (Power Armor Goon) in HERO, one of whose main schticks was to override and take control over and remotely control the power armor (or even robots, androids and AIs) of opponents. It had to be written up as a power with a skill roll-off.

2) Countering Existing Magic. <snip>

The effort here is not necessarily to snap your fingers, cast a spell, and make a magical effect go poof. Merely, that he is reducing the effectiveness, or putting a lot of time into defusing the effect completely, while his allies are either A) Keeping the oncoming enemy away so he can work, or B) Weaken a foe/widen a gate or force it closed/drain the power from a ritual/artifact or amplify/recharge the MacGuffin.

HERO does this a variety of ways- Drain & Suppress immediately spring to mind.

The game Mutants & Masterminds is designed to have similar flexibility- I wouldn't be surprised to find you could do both in that system as well.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

1) The Contest of Power and Wills. This happens more in superhero shows, but you can find it enough when two wizards battle.

Enemy A and enemy B shoot some sort of force at one another. The two collide, and the two characters continue to shoot. A "Tug of War" commences, where enemy B pushes harder, making Enemy A lose ground, the joining of the beams get closer to him. Then Enemy A pushes back hard, shoving the beams back towards Enemy B.

Already mentioned, but I'm going to second Dogs in the Vineyard. The entire conflict system - be it martial combat or debating against one another - is done entirely through a series of betting die against one another. That said, it's very far from a Gamist...er, game. Very far. So your results may vary.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Actually, the first thing that came to mind from this post was...

Shadowrun. Seriously, deckers are the quintessential mages in this regard. They go off and do their own thing, probably a very important thing, but the rest of the party twiddles their thumbs while they overcome the technological obstacle. It takes a good bit of time, and is an interesting challenge for that PC.

In a well-run story, of course, the other players will have something to do at the same time--fighting off mooks, etc.

Ben

<offtopic>
In 4e, anyone can join their hacker (combines rigger and decker) buds in such activities due to Augmented Reality. And Matrix rules that don't make your head hurt *quite* so much. Plus, it has the side effect that the hackers tend to actually get up and run with the party rather than staying at home and messing with things from afar.
</offtopic>