Something that's been nagging me about Cure spells.

[Hellzon]

I've been thinking about the Cure spells. Let me explain:

1. Damage spells that require a 'to hit roll' can deal critical damage or sneak attack (SA) damage. Right?

2. Cure spells deal damage and require a 'to hit' roll when used against undead. Right?

But undead are immune to criticals. Let's do nr. 2 again.

2. Inflict spells deal damage and require a 'to hit' roll.

So, could you crit (or sneak attack) with an Inflict spell? I've never heard of it, but it should be possible. Right? Assuming that an evil cleric/rogue is flanking an enemy, could he 'sneak' inflict XXX wounds?

Now, say an ally of a cleric is grappling. The cleric casts a Cure spell at the ally, and the DM rules that an attack roll is needed. The cleric rolls a 20 and crits. Critical cure?

Just something I've been wondering about. I probably missed something. Comments?

hellzon, your friendly neighbourhood troll

 

[zorlag]

Well...

I don't think that's core rule. However, I don't see anything wrong with these as house rules. After all, you are using type of energy that has most harmful effect on undead.

Z.

 

[Arksorn]

Sneak Attack on PHB page 47 only discusses causing extra damage as does Critical Hits on PHB page 123. So I would say that only spells that do damage such as inflict light wounds could do sneak attack damage or critical damage and not spells that heal damage. So cure light wounds on an undead could do more damage (if they were not immune to sneak attacks and criticals) but it could not heal more damage if used on a friend.

 

[shilsen]

Yes, you can critical with an inflict wounds spell. I wouldn't allow criticals when healing, but maybe that's just me

 

[Destil]

Yes, you can critical with an inflict wounds spell. I wouldn't allow criticals when healing, but maybe that's just me

It's not just you, it's the rules. You can't critical or deal sneak attack damage with a spell that dosn't deal some type of damage. Thus no critical cures.

 

[IceBear]

Tome and Blood specifically addresses the issue of critical hits (and sneak attacks) with spells that need an attack roll. As was pointed out above, the spells have to cause damage so you can't critically cure someone.

IceBear

 

[Li Shenron]

It is quite clear that critical hits regard only damage, not healing. Common view is that a critical hit represents having hit in a painful or vital spot. Anyway, every time you deal damage with an attack roll you can score a critical, with default of 20/x2 if no indication is given; but still it's supposed to be x2 damage, not effect (although some extra may be critted as well, such as level drain).

Normally you don't roll an attack if the effect is beneficial, since the target is willing to receive it, and basically lets you automatically "hit" him. If a critical was possible, I'd also say that it would be automatic as well if the "hitting" is.

There are some few special cases when you need an attack roll to hit a friend with a beneficial spell: another case could be the use of Reach Spell applied to healing of buffing spells*. I don't think it should give the possibility to score 2d4+2 with Bull's Strength for example. Otherwise... what about a Coup-de-grace Cure Wounds?

*You might have a favorable condition, such as target being treated as having -5 Dex because he's trying to actively intercept your ray, but no automatic hit IMHO

 

[DreamChaser]

I would rule-0 the no crits on undead when applied to positive energy sources...but that is just me.

DC

 

[IceBear]

Well, since Undead are immune to Crits, I don't think that's a house rule.

IceBear

 

[MadScientist]

I think DreamChaser's intent with that statement was to *allow* critical hits on undead if the damage was being caused by positive energy.

Edit: Changed my post to make it gender neutral. I don't know if DC is a he or a she!