Song of Ice and Fire (GRR Martin) -- how many books? -- SPOILERS!
- Thread starter zyzzyr
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No. There's a definite overarching story to the first three books that is resolved in A Storm of Swords, but there's also a bunch of subplots. The remaining books will, I imagine, focus on at least one of those subplots.zyzzyr said:
There was originally meant to be a lengthy gap of time inbetween A Storm of Swords and book 4, but GRRM found that one of the stories that he intended to have happen during that gap needed to be told. So the next book, A Feast for Crows (hopefully coming out later this year) will cover the inbetween time. Martin has said that he still wants to keep the series at 6 books, though.
I get a real sense reading A Song of Ice and Fire (that I didn't get reading Wheel of Time) that Martin already knows where he's going and how he's getting there. I just don't see this series getting dragged out (and dragged down) by its author's excesses the way WoT has.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Also worth checking is http://www.westeros.org/ They've got a large collection of correspondence with GRRM - e-mails, message board posts, letters and convention meetups. Well worth reading - this guy doesn't give anything away, plays his cards very close to his chest.
AFAIU, Martin was inspired by Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow & Thorn" proving that epic fantasy was viable (also well worth reading, as is his sci-fi epic "Otherland")
Martin was previously best known as an editor (this is a GOOD thing) through his work with the Wild Cards series of 'super-hero' group novels (generally pretty good), his television work and a few novels and short stories (make sure that you read "Fevre Dream" - vampires and steamboats, woohoo!, and "The Onion Knight" a Westeros short set a long time before ASOIAF).
He had his heart set on finishing AOIAF in six books. He then realised that his characters were all too young for him to do what he really wanted to do with them. He intended to leave a five-year gap, but he found that he was telling the fourth book in flashback.
He has decided to go to seven books.
I for one, am willing to trust him - he hasn't done me wrong yet.
AFAIU, Martin was inspired by Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow & Thorn" proving that epic fantasy was viable (also well worth reading, as is his sci-fi epic "Otherland")
Martin was previously best known as an editor (this is a GOOD thing) through his work with the Wild Cards series of 'super-hero' group novels (generally pretty good), his television work and a few novels and short stories (make sure that you read "Fevre Dream" - vampires and steamboats, woohoo!, and "The Onion Knight" a Westeros short set a long time before ASOIAF).
He had his heart set on finishing AOIAF in six books. He then realised that his characters were all too young for him to do what he really wanted to do with them. He intended to leave a five-year gap, but he found that he was telling the fourth book in flashback.
He has decided to go to seven books.
I for one, am willing to trust him - he hasn't done me wrong yet.
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Yes, exactly so.
Although I haven't read Jordan, people who have complained that he began to repeat himself very quickly. By the third book people were rehashing the same situations they lived through in the first book and - to my friends annoyance - began to say things like "This seems so familiar" or "Haven't we done this before?"
Anyway, GRR Martin doesn't seem to have run out of steam yet - Storm of Swords doesn't read like Game of Thrones 3 if you know what I mean.
jdavis
First Post
Gizzard said:
Jordan and Martin are two distinctly different authors, for one Martin seems to know how to edit, Jordan has no clue on how to edit stuff he just writes and writes and lets the editor sort it out (I believe his editor is his wife). I've already gone on and on about Jordan and his books before, up until this last Jordan book I was fine with there being so many of them. As long as the writing stays good then keep them comming, it's when the quality starts to slip that it gets bothersome. Martin is getting better as it goes not worse, until they get crappy like Jordan's books have then I don't mind a big story arc. Seven books into Wheel of Time most people were still hooked pretty good, when you get to 10 books and the story isn't going anywhere or even look near ending then you got problems. I won't gripe about Martin having too many books till I feel like he is padding out the series, right now he is moving along at a good pace, Jordan's last book moved the plot along a week or so and the last 4 or 5 books have all been set in the same 3 month period.
Mystic Eye
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jdavis said:
I have continued to read the Wheel of Time series mainly because I want to see it to the end. I loved the first few books and have liked a few after. I have to agree entirely with jdavis on this though. Each book in the Martin series gets better and I cannot wait for the next one. If this trend continues he could continue to write the series for a long, long time and I would not tire of it as I have, in a few ways, with Wheel of Time. I have a feeling though that Martin is less about "milking" the series for every dime it is worth and more about telling the great story he has developed. I am pretty sure he knows when and where it will end while I get the distinct feeling that Jordan is going on for financial reasons only and could end the series in any new WOT book that comes along if he chose to.
Holy Bovine
First Post
SPOILERS!
Personally I was a little dissappointed in Storm of Swords. I was really hoping that more (if not most) loose ends would be tied up a little tighter than they were. Ayra is just running around the wilderness now? (like she was doing for most of books 2 & 3). Is Sandor dead? What about Jon Snow? All of these and more are plot points I really wanted to see some sense of closure on. Even if it was something like 'now they have place to hang & train for the next few months/years'. Probably my biggest problem with the 3rd book was the death of Robb Stark. Not because I was in love with the character (of all the Stark children he was the least developed) but because so much was written about him that I expected him to be a continuing thorn in the Lannisters' sides. Now with him gone all of that 'prep time' seems like such a waste of time.
That being said I have really fallen in love with this series. Martin is talented as a writer (I didn't know he was an editor before this but that does explain why, in 3000 pages, the pacing seems very fast and even) and while the subject matter, at times, has almost driven me away from the series altogether, I am glad I stuck with it. Song of Fire and Ice is easily the best written fantasy epic of the last 30 years - only time will tell if its story has the staying power of the classics.
I am very glad that the next trilogy will be set several years in the future - I can't wait to see Ayra and Bran as young adults! (and whatever did happen to Rickon?)
Personally I was a little dissappointed in Storm of Swords. I was really hoping that more (if not most) loose ends would be tied up a little tighter than they were. Ayra is just running around the wilderness now? (like she was doing for most of books 2 & 3). Is Sandor dead? What about Jon Snow? All of these and more are plot points I really wanted to see some sense of closure on. Even if it was something like 'now they have place to hang & train for the next few months/years'. Probably my biggest problem with the 3rd book was the death of Robb Stark. Not because I was in love with the character (of all the Stark children he was the least developed) but because so much was written about him that I expected him to be a continuing thorn in the Lannisters' sides. Now with him gone all of that 'prep time' seems like such a waste of time.
That being said I have really fallen in love with this series. Martin is talented as a writer (I didn't know he was an editor before this but that does explain why, in 3000 pages, the pacing seems very fast and even) and while the subject matter, at times, has almost driven me away from the series altogether, I am glad I stuck with it. Song of Fire and Ice is easily the best written fantasy epic of the last 30 years - only time will tell if its story has the staying power of the classics.
I am very glad that the next trilogy will be set several years in the future - I can't wait to see Ayra and Bran as young adults! (and whatever did happen to Rickon?)
Alaric_Prympax
First Post
There are going to be at least 6 books but with A Feast for Crows being unplanned and he still has the same story to tell I believe it will be 7 books. From what I know about A Feast for Crows, it will pick up where A Storm of Swords ended and cover 5 years.
Oh, Holy Bovine, little Rickon is with Osha, she took him someplace which we don't know. Even Bran does not know since he was speculating that he could be at White Harbor or Last Hearth. Personally I think he'll end up at Greywater Watch but I don't believe we'll hear anything from him till A Dance with Dragons .
Oh, Holy Bovine, little Rickon is with Osha, she took him someplace which we don't know. Even Bran does not know since he was speculating that he could be at White Harbor or Last Hearth. Personally I think he'll end up at Greywater Watch but I don't believe we'll hear anything from him till A Dance with Dragons .
Dr Bunsen Honeydew
First Post
I've found that, almost from the beginning (especially in what has previously been referred to on these boards as "The Book-Throwing Scene" (TBTS)) GRRM has been unafraid of changing the rules that fantasy novels have traditionally been written under.
He is unafraid of killing off main characters.
He lets you deep into the mindset of what seem his most 'evil' characters (Go Jaime!)
His characters, even some of the most seemingly good-hearted ones do dark and evil things as circumstances push them into them.
He praises LoTR, but says that Tolien should never have let Gandalf return in an even more powerful guise. Those who've read the third book in ASoIaF know how he would have dealt with Gandalf's return.
I like how this guy thinks.
He is unafraid of killing off main characters.
He lets you deep into the mindset of what seem his most 'evil' characters (Go Jaime!)
His characters, even some of the most seemingly good-hearted ones do dark and evil things as circumstances push them into them.
He praises LoTR, but says that Tolien should never have let Gandalf return in an even more powerful guise. Those who've read the third book in ASoIaF know how he would have dealt with Gandalf's return.
I like how this guy thinks.
Well
I've just finished Storm of Swords, and am eagerly awaiting Feast for Crows
I agree, he definitely does have a goal in mind. Not at all Jordanesque.
Holy Bovine - I'm a little lost on why you're confused about Jon Snow - he was named Lord Commander of the Watch at the end of SoS. Arya is on her way to Braavos - a huge change.
There is only one way for the series to end - Daenarys will sit on the Iron Throne. The series seems Shakespearean, and one of the tenets of Shakespeare's plays is that the true king ALWAYS rises at the end. All things are aright - things are in their natural order - and a Targaryen will once again sit on the Iron Throne.
As for Jordan's series, I thought it was fairly obvious where he was going. Rand is clearly not the Dragon Reborn. They are only at a "half-turn" of the wheel - it has not yet come full circle. He is the one to begin to elevate society back to what it was before the Dragon appeared. He won't end the world - he saves it.
Something along those lines.
Anyhow, GRR stuff is good, I just wish he could use fewer words!
I've just finished Storm of Swords, and am eagerly awaiting Feast for Crows
I agree, he definitely does have a goal in mind. Not at all Jordanesque.
Holy Bovine - I'm a little lost on why you're confused about Jon Snow - he was named Lord Commander of the Watch at the end of SoS. Arya is on her way to Braavos - a huge change.
There is only one way for the series to end - Daenarys will sit on the Iron Throne. The series seems Shakespearean, and one of the tenets of Shakespeare's plays is that the true king ALWAYS rises at the end. All things are aright - things are in their natural order - and a Targaryen will once again sit on the Iron Throne.
As for Jordan's series, I thought it was fairly obvious where he was going. Rand is clearly not the Dragon Reborn. They are only at a "half-turn" of the wheel - it has not yet come full circle. He is the one to begin to elevate society back to what it was before the Dragon appeared. He won't end the world - he saves it.
Something along those lines.
Anyhow, GRR stuff is good, I just wish he could use fewer words!
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