Song of Ice and Fire question

[Wombat]

In many ways I think Martin's major angle is to make most of the characters and families as objectionable as possible so that he appears to be a "different author".

In then end, I have gotten bored with his attempts.

But then again, since he is more or less ripping off the to's and fro's of the Wars of the Roses (and then adding in some apologetic magic), I suppose it is appropriate for all involved to be nasty, self-involved, and generally unlikeable.

Then he can bring in his not-quite-Tudors at the end who will re-write all of history and be none too loveable themselves...

I gave up reading after the second book; I'd be as likely to be dragged back to these books as to the Thomas Covenant novels.

**sigh**

I love what passes for literature sometimes...

 

[Sirius_Black]

I'm at work so I can't check, but the preview from Dragon was an Asha POV wasn't it? Or am I mad?

I'm curious if that's not part of the extended prologue that has been written and rewritten. You definitely do see Asha's POV in the preview. But, you also see her uncle who loves to hold people under water. In fact, more of the Dragon preview seemed to show his POV than Asha's. Regardless, it should be interesting. I like Asha.

 

[Rhialto]

In many ways I think Martin's major angle is to make most of the characters and families as objectionable as possible so that he appears to be a "different author".

In then end, I have gotten bored with his attempts.

But then again, since he is more or less ripping off the to's and fro's of the Wars of the Roses (and then adding in some apologetic magic), I suppose it is appropriate for all involved to be nasty, self-involved, and generally unlikeable.

Then he can bring in his not-quite-Tudors at the end who will re-write all of history and be none too loveable themselves...

I gave up reading after the second book; I'd be as likely to be dragged back to these books as to the Thomas Covenant novels.

**sigh**

I love what passes for literature sometimes...

You see, my problem with this is that you're:

a) saying that if you find something unpleasant, it can't be any good. (I don't find the Marat/Sade very pleasant. But I'm the first to admit that it is very good.)

b) blatantly insulting the taste, (and indeed making other insinuations) about the people who DO like the books.

c) pulling out the "ripping off history" factor which is one of the biggest straw men I've ever seen--authors take their cues from history all the time, and saying that Martin is just "ripping off" the War of the Roses is ignoring the fact that--well, the War of the Roses, and The Song of Ice and Fire only resemble each other in the most general of ways...

 

[WizarDru]

In many ways I think Martin's major angle is to make most of the characters and families as objectionable as possible so that he appears to be a "different author".

In then end, I have gotten bored with his attempts.

Well, I beg to differ, but that's a matter of taste. You feel that he's merely including certain elements merely to tittlate or offend, and thus be considered 'edgy' (if I understand you correctly). Your welcome to your own opinion, but I think you haven't read much of Martin's work in the past, if you think that's the case. You can see many of the same inter-personal relationships in his prior work, including the Wild Cards stories he wrote, many over 15 years old at this point.

I certainly don't find everyone involved to be utterly unlikeable, as you do. In point of fact, I find many folks who I do like. This thread is, in fact, dedicated to folks discussing the heroes of the story. I find many of Martin's characters like many folks I know...real, but flawed.

I love what passes for literature sometimes...

According to the New American Dictionary, literarture is defined as "Imaginative or creative writing, especially of recognized artistic value." You may not enjoy it, and that's a valid opinion to hold...but that doesn't mean that it isn't literature. Perhaps you are using the term differently. I don't particularly rate "The Devil wears Prada" or "The Russia House" as Great Literature, either, which is what I'm guessing you mean. To each his own.

 

[RyanL]

As much as I like Brienne, I'll be disappointed if she's the new POV. I just don't see her as having things in her head that I'm dying to know.

I was really hoping for Howland Reed or Barristan Selmy, since they're both characters that almost certainly have some interesting secrets bouncing around in their noggins.

-Ryan

 

[KnowTheToe]

As much as I like Brienne, I'll be disappointed if she's the new POV. I just don't see her as having things in her head that I'm dying to know.

I was really hoping for Howland Reed or Barristan Selmy, since they're both characters that almost certainly have some interesting secrets bouncing around in their noggins.

-Ryan

I agree whole heartedly, especially with the no Brienne POV. She has played her part, which was to bring/start change within Jaime and to bring that change to the readers attention. I would hope she stays as a support character.

 

[jdavis]

In many ways I think Martin's major angle is to make most of the characters and families as objectionable as possible so that he appears to be a "different author".

In then end, I have gotten bored with his attempts.

But then again, since he is more or less ripping off the to's and fro's of the Wars of the Roses (and then adding in some apologetic magic), I suppose it is appropriate for all involved to be nasty, self-involved, and generally unlikeable.

Then he can bring in his not-quite-Tudors at the end who will re-write all of history and be none too loveable themselves...

I gave up reading after the second book; I'd be as likely to be dragged back to these books as to the Thomas Covenant novels.

**sigh**

I love what passes for literature sometimes...

Heh? so what does this have to do wtih the topic? Oh it sounds like you are trying to be all cool and knowledgeable and that's fine but how is he trying to be a different author and from whom is he trying to be different? I am not sure I get your logic there, he's trying to write books the way he writes them, is he trying to be different from himself? Is he trying to be different from other authors? Is he trying to be different from "the War of the Roses"? Was he supposed to be the same as all the other authors out there? Was he just supposed to copy Tolkien like the vast majority of fantasy authors do? I'm just not sure what your point was supposed to be? Different than who?

You know I just love what passes for literature sometimes too........

 

[jdavis]

I agree whole heartedly, especially with the no Brienne POV. She has played her part, which was to bring/start change within Jaime and to bring that change to the readers attention. I would hope she stays as a support character.

I would like it to be Asha as there is no POV from the Iron Islands yet there is obviously stuff going on there. I like Brienne as a character but she is just a support character for other more important characters (first Caitlyn and now Jamie)I don't see a need for her to be any more than that, lets face it she's just not that interesting in and of herself, she can move on to be a support character for Sansa (And I would bet eventually she will end up back as part of Jamie's POV).

 

[RyanL]

I would like it to be Asha as there is no POV from the Iron Islands yet there is obviously stuff going on there. I like Brienne as a character but she is just a support character for other more important characters (first Caitlyn and now Jamie)I don't see a need for her to be any more than that, lets face it she's just not that interesting in and of herself, she can move on to be a support character for Sansa (And I would bet eventually she will end up back as part of Jamie's POV).

Well, ask and you shall receive. According to the interview that's linked in the other thread, there will be several new POV characters and it looks like one of them might be Asha.

-Ryan

 

[Olive]

Well, ask and you shall receive. According to the interview that's linked in the other thread, there will be several new POV characters and it looks like one of them might be Asha.

-Ryan

The other thread? Care to link? Or better yet, link the interview here?