Sor/Wiz 7 spells

[Quartz]

He can take ranks, but they'll be cross-classed and thus cost more as well as have a lower cap.

Because it's a Trained-only skill, the single-classed wizard cannot take ranks in UMD at all.

Simulacrum is way cool, but it's an awfully expensive decoy.

And a store of buffing and detection spells. And an expendable scout. And a rear guard. And...

At that level, 1000 XP is small beer.

 

[jasin]

My players really like magnificent mansion, because they know they're safe from foes who would like to Scry - Buff - Teleport and kick them in the jimmies.

What are the benefits (other than the admittedly significant cosmetic ones) of Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion over rope trick?

 

[glass]

Because it's a Trained-only skill, the single-classed wizard cannot take ranks in UMD at all.

That just isn't right:

Trained Only: If this notation is included in the skill name line, you must have at least 1 rank in the skill to use it. If it is omitted, the skill can be used untrained (with a rank of 0). If any special notes apply to trained or untrained use, they are covered in the Untrained section (see below).

glass.

 

[jasin]

Because it's a Trained-only skill, the single-classed wizard cannot take ranks in UMD at all.

That's not what trained only means. Because it's trained only, you cannot use it unless you take ranks. But anyone can take ranks.

And a store of buffing and detection spells. And an expendable scout. And a rear guard. And...

At that level, 1000 XP is small beer.

1000 XP to make one and and take care and make use of it, sure. 1000 XP to make one and use it as mirror image, that's just wasteful.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Even one with scrolls and UMD ranks? Seems like he could do more than even limited wish (albeit with a higher failure rate occasionally; I suppose it's a trade off).

For example, a 13th level generalist with a 12 Cha, max UMD ranks, and synergy bonuses from Spellcraft and Decipher Script (total 13 modifier) has a 35% chance to cast resurrection from a scroll. A 13th level generalist using limited wish has a 0% chance to emulate resurrection.

Hmmm. The SRD says:

The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

Your 13th level generalist also needs a 17 Wis in order to cast a 7th level divine spell from a scroll. He'll probably have to emulate that Wis (which is a DC34 UMD check, which he can't actually make!).

If he is lucky enough to have that stupendous wisdom (unlikely, since most wizards favour Con and Dex after Int), Resurrection is a level 7 spell, so minimum caster level is 13, so he has to make a DC33 UMD check. i.e. he can do it if he rolls a 20!

So for practical purposes it is unlikely that the 13th level generalist could cast resurrection from a scroll. How about Raise Dead? Unless he has a 15 Wisdom already he must make a DC30 UMD check (best he can do is 29 with his 8 ranks and +1 Cha bonus, so that is out). Let's be kind and assume he has got the 15 Wis though. Then he must just make a DC 29 UMD to activate the scroll. With all his bonuses he gets +13, so he must roll 16+ on the d20... so IF he has a 15 Wisdom, he STILL only has a 25% of getting a mere raise dead spell off.

Mind you with Limited Wish, he just casts the spell...

Cheers

 

[Thanee]

The Wizard will also have some synergy bonuses, but still the DCs are way too high.

Bye
Thanee

 

[IanB]

I think the confusion on training UMD stems from a 3.0->3.5 change. In 3.0, UMD was an exclusive skill and you couldn't train it unless it was on your skill list. That rule has been eliminated in 3.5.

 

[Nifft]

What are the benefits (other than the admittedly significant cosmetic ones) of Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion over rope trick?

Compatibility with standard extradimensional storage devices; room to summon and bind critters; room to sleep comfortably.

That first one is the real limit on rope trick, though.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Quartz]

I think the confusion on training UMD stems from a 3.0->3.5 change. In 3.0, UMD was an exclusive skill and you couldn't train it unless it was on your skill list. That rule has been eliminated in 3.5.

Ahh, you're right.

 

[jasin]

Compatibility with standard extradimensional storage devices; room to summon and bind critters; room to sleep comfortably.

That first one is the real limit on rope trick, though.

Interesting. I never noticed that before. I think our DM is going to be very happy.