Sorcere Elemantalist at-wills over powered ??

[Neonchameleon]

Honestly, I think that the one that loses Cha is one of the best. It sucks against single targets, granted. But you've your bolt for that. On the other hand it has some pretty big advantages.

1: It cleans minions like a wizard. Hit one, the minion next to it goes. Two rolls to kill two minions.

2: It's Friendly.

3: It allows better focus fire if you have several people in the burst/blast. You can drop your charisma mod several times onto the same target.

My genuine opinion is that with a cluster of three monsters it's the best of the at wills (other than the range issue). With one you use your bolt anyway. That just leaves the two target case.

 

[Marshall]

Honestly, I think that the one that loses Cha is one of the best. It sucks against single targets, granted. But you've your bolt for that. On the other hand it has some pretty big advantages.

1: It cleans minions like a wizard. Hit one, the minion next to it goes. Two rolls to kill two minions.

As long as they are adjacent. Granted, in a 3x3 area thats pretty likely. Technically, you can get to a target 4 squares away with it, but just CHA damage isnt really a threat to anything but minions.

2: It's Friendly.

Yep, big plus.

3: It allows better focus fire if you have several people in the burst/blast. You can drop your charisma mod several times onto the same target.

My genuine opinion is that with a cluster of three monsters it's the best of the at wills (other than the range issue). With one you use your bolt anyway. That just leaves the two target case.

Assuming that guy you want to jump the extra damage to is the center of the cluster. Its situationally very useful but would only actually get to good if the jump damage was an elementalist rider and the base damage was always d8+CHA.

So much potential in this class and so much time wasted to bring out a half-finished, half-baked idea for a class that is desperately crying out for support.

 

[keterys]

Ah, missed that Static was friendly. Well, it's at least an interesting option then, especially for your 2nd/3rd at-will chosen

Anyhow, much as folks can moan for more Sorcerer support (and, really, they need paragon paths even more than powers probably), I like elementalist a lot and I'm just as glad we got it. It's an essentials style class that actually appears to work _and_ be interesting. Good on WotC.

 

[rangda]

As someone whose played nothing but sorcerers for the past couple of years, my opinion is that the Elementalist is a significant power boost over the vanilla Sorcerer.

Losing the blacks does hurt, but you get a lot back in return:

1. Useful reds. Sorcerer reds taken as a whole 1-27 aren't all that hot. My Sorcerers frequently end up spamming greens anyway. Extra damage on the greens is a better use of reds as some of the below items will show. And some of the rider effects make you a passable controller. Blind is particularly gross, but fortunately you don't get it until the endgame.
2. Green spamming. Spamming at-wills makes a whole slew of feats and items a lot more useful. White lotus feats become great investments as they work with 100% of your powers. Arcane admixture + Resounding Thunder was great for even a vanilla sorcerer, for an Elementist it's possible for you to cover every area green to boost their size. Pop a rust bark and a lightning whetstone and you become the ultimate minion sweeper. Backlash tattoo is universally useful as every Elementalist has a basic attack.
3. Reagent spamming. Thanks to the broken economy of 4e once you hit low-mid paragon you can buy near infinite reagents and you only ever need the baby ones as your powers will never be higher than L1.
4. Slight DPS bump. Even straight up the Elementist has slightly better DPS than a Sorcerer. The rider damage is higher and 3d10 @L17 is more damage than you'll get from any area red at that level. The reduced power set makes energized superior implements more useful as you an get the bonus on most of your powers.
5. Focus Fire. I think a lot of people here are missing the utility of Static Charge. It wouldn't be my first or second at-will but it would probably be my third (maybe I'd take Burning Spray for a fire elementalist). There's a lot of potential here to focus damage onto a single target, especially if you've got a partner that can push, pull, or slide to setup the bowling pins for you. The biggest drawback is actually that it's enemies only; it prevents War Wizardry abuse (which is a good thing). Even the bolt power for a fire elementist is pretty grim, 1d12 + 1d6 + CHA + CON, that's an average 18 damage per hit @L1 for an 18/18 sorcerer. Add an incendiary dagger and that's 20 damage per hit @L1.
6. Stats. Secondary stat of CON is just plain wrong. One of the big drawbacks of Sorcerers has always been the fact that they are quite squishy, you have to buy two big stats and that leaves precious few points to dump into CON. The Elementalist solves that problem by making CON the secondary stat.

There are some drawbacks, the loss of the blacks isn't so bad in heroic but will catch up to you in paragon. All the burst 1 in 10 powers target fort which generally is the highest monster defense. This is going to hurt DPS a bit. The class could be a bit dull in play as you'll have precious few options (some other essential classes share this problem however). There really isn't a good paragon path for the class (the one they wrote isn't that good, I'd probably go with either Blizzard Mage for the grossly overpowered L20 daily or Essence mage for the slight damage bump with multi-element attacks). Although again you could say this for all Sorcerers.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Hmm... Been looking further.

The big thing to me you lack on the DPR stakes is minors or off turn attacks. (Flame Shroud, anyone?)

As for Paragon Paths, Demonskin Adept is always fun for serious DPR all round and an encounter power that genuinely does sickening amounts of single target damage. There's also a lot to be said for Academy Master as everything is At Will.

I actually think Static is one of the best two, competing only with Icy Prison - the burst slow. And then there are White Lotus feats. White Lotus Master Hindrance in particular combines well with the slowed condition. Just a pity Frost Cheese has gone...

 

[keterys]

You can Reserve Maneuver your Paragon Path power to Flame Spiral if that's something you want to do, too. (Or take Adroit Explorer or Mithral Arm)

Rebounding and Speed Daggers are good ways to get minors, as is Quickened Spellcasting. Getting a free RBA on crits is also pretty doable.

 

[pemerton]

As for Paragon Paths, Demonskin Adept is always fun for serious DPR all round and an encounter power that genuinely does sickening amounts of single target damage.

I GM a drow chaos sorcerer/Demonskin Adept and I agree with what you say.

 

[Piratecat]

Rangda, excellent analysis. Thank you.

 

[Zuche]

Secondary stat of CON is just plain wrong. One of the big drawbacks of Sorcerers has always been the fact that they are quite squishy, you have to buy two big stats and that leaves precious few points to dump into CON. The Elementalist solves that problem by making CON the secondary stat.

That gets you the rough equivalent of the Toughness feat at heroic level, less as you reach higher tiers. Helpful as that is, there's no need to blow it out of proportion. It hardly matters at all in a game that gives people free access to backgrounds.

 

[Obryn]

That gets you the rough equivalent of the Toughness feat at heroic level, less as you reach higher tiers. Helpful as that is, there's no need to blow it out of proportion. It hardly matters at all in a game that gives people free access to backgrounds.

Eh? The raw HPs aren't nearly as important as the quantity of healing surges. Think more like Durability or even double that vs. other Sorcerers.

Free access to backgrounds isn't to be assumed, either. In my own games I don't allow backgrounds that do anything other than a language, class skill, or +2 to a skill, and I know I'm not alone in this.

-O