Sorcere Elemantalist at-wills over powered ??

[Marshall]

Rule of thumb: If someone glances at a rule and cries "broken" at first sight, it usually isn't. The really broken stuff is usually between the lines and requires a non-obvious combination of things.

...and there's a huge difference between "overpowered" and "broken". Ice Prison and Ignition are too good for at-wills. Throwing Slow around in an area burst at-will is too good and thats before the d8 damage die. Dropping d10's in an area burst at-will is two steps better than ANY previous at-will and 3 steps better than anything else the parent class gets. The only saving grace is that these are most overpowered at level 1 and dwindle off after that.

That, actually, is biggest condemnation of the build as a whole. You're very strong at level 1 and suck by the time you hit paragon where you still have 7 more levels before you get any improvement at all.

 

[bganon]

There's no reason to compare the elementalist at-wills to any AEDU subclass's at-wills. They don't have a level, nobody else can take them, the elementalist gets no other attack powers, etc... it's apples and oranges, really.

But slow in an area burst at-will is too good? Really? Is that why Invokers get it? Sure, Grasping Shards does less damage, but that extra 1d8+3 or so is more or less a generous striker damage bonus. And "two steps" better damage (d6->d10) is +2 damage, on average. Giving up your daily attacks for +2 damage all the time sounds... about right, actually.

 

[keterys]

Elemental Bolt does 1d12 instead of 1d10. Ignition does 1d10 instead of 1d8 (or maybe 1d6). Etc.

They have slightly better at-wills than the base line. But they're not easily poachable and they're not unbalanced for Elementalists.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[mkill]

...and there's a huge difference between "overpowered" and "broken". Ice Prison and Ignition are too good for at-wills. Throwing Slow around in an area burst at-will is too good and thats before the d8 damage die. Dropping d10's in an area burst at-will is two steps better than ANY previous at-will and 3 steps better than anything else the parent class gets. The only saving grace is that these are most overpowered at level 1 and dwindle off after that.

It's not that impressive if it's the only thing you can do. "Area at-will DPS" is the Elementalist's shtick. Sure, he's the best at it, or at least top-tier, but it's a niche that is not even useful in most combats. If you plink minions, you the extra damage doesn't make a difference. If the enemies don't cluster, it doesn't make a difference. If you only fight a solo, it's not useful.

You need to consider the opportunity cost of not being able to do all the cool things other ranged strikers can do. It's tough to impress if you're up against twin-striking rangers.

 

[thewok]

As an aside, does anyone think it's funny that the Elementalist, a striker, is a better controller than the Bladesinger, which is actually supposed to be a controller?

 

[Marshall]

Elemental Bolt does 1d12 instead of 1d10. Ignition does 1d10 instead of 1d8 (or maybe 1d6). Etc.

They have slightly better at-wills than the base line. But they're not easily poachable and they're not unbalanced for Elementalists.

Sure they are, and its awful class design on top of that. Why would you add the DPS into the at-will? Especially when the class is designed with a damage booster?

On top of that, these powers are NOT internally consistent even within the Elementalist. None of the other powers have that level of damage+powerful effect. The earth aoe power is 1d6+difficult terrain area, none of the close powers is more than a d8, push 1, grant CA, slide 1. Heck, one of them even loses CHA to the target in hopes of gaining it back.

Yeah, IP and Ignition are OP for what they do, even within Elementalists.

 

[keterys]

Eh... I'd be more willing to call Eruption and Static Charge underpowered than call Elemental Bolt or Ignition overpowered.

The burst of slow I don't consider that strong, considering how effective I've seen slow be across all levels, but it is at least slightly more outside the curve of normality.

Anyhow, complaining about them is a lot like complaining about Dual Weapon Attack being too good. Meh.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

These powers don't seem particularly strong when compared to wizard at-wills - although they do more damage off the bat, their level of control is about the same. Howling Zephyr is directly analogous to Freezing Burst, Ice Prison is directly analogous to Stone Blood, and many of the other powers are very similar to wizard at-will or 1st-level encounter powers. I'd guess that a wizard moderately focused on damage would be competitive with the elementalist on damage (particularly with Enlarge Spell enabling the wizard to do more damage simply by being able to hit more targets) while outshining the elementalist on control and flexibility. And the wizard has those wizard dailies...

So, my gut feel is that the elementalist at-wills are powerful, but not over-powered, and the class as a whole is possibly a little over-simplified and under-powered at higher levels.

PS What does a human elementalist do by way of a bonus at-will power - take the other at-will for his or her speciality?

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Zuche]

Heck, one of them even loses CHA to the target in hopes of gaining it back.

Well, no, it's more a matter of redistributing energy so that you could either: a) hit x number of enemies and damage up to 2x within a burst 2, or b) hit one creature for damage equal to the number of your enemies adjacent to it multiplied by your Charisma modifier. Sometimes, you're just going to have to settle for hitting two enemies for 1d8+Con+ each, but a little bit of teamwork might allow you the occasional opportunity to hit two for 1d8+Con+, one for 1d8+Cha+Con+, and one for 1d8+3(Cha)+Con+. It also helps that the power doesn't target allies.

PS What does a human elementalist do by way of a bonus at-will power - take the other at-will for his or her speciality?

It's assumed that a human character with an Essentials style class would select the Heroic Effort racial power, but this may be one of those times where you might prefer to take the extra at-will power instead, at least at lower levels. I'm not sure you'd be any more obliged to take the other power associated with your selected element than you'd be at 9th or 19th level. Getting adequate mileage out of five at-will powers might be difficult, even if you opted for one ranged basic attack (and possibly a melee basic attack with Sorcerous Blade Channeling?), one close blast, one close burst, and two area burst attacks.