SORCERER - LIKES & DISLIKES
- Thread starter Flamewarrior
- Start date
Likes - they are great fun to play, choosing spells is only done when you level up rather than each day, the tactical challenge of making your spells fit the situation, the fact that you hardly ever run out of spells so its rarely you who calls for a rest
Dislikes - the way some people claim sorcerers a very weak class as if its both an incontrovertible FACT (rather than an opinion) and the most important thing to know about them (see the first in my list of likes for what I consider to be the most important thing to know about sorcerers); also I dislike the fact that knowstones and bloodline feats aren't in the core rules
Dislikes - the way some people claim sorcerers a very weak class as if its both an incontrovertible FACT (rather than an opinion) and the most important thing to know about them (see the first in my list of likes for what I consider to be the most important thing to know about sorcerers); also I dislike the fact that knowstones and bloodline feats aren't in the core rules
Mercule
Adventurer
Likes: Erm.... Makes draconic casters easier to GM and more reasonable.
Dislikes: Not quite enough spells to do anything stand-out. Too few skill points. No bonus abilities. Too narrow of a skill list. Same hps/bab as wizard. Really, it seems like sorcerers get their spells innately and automatically turn into lazy SOBs. None of them actually seem to do anything with the time they free up not having to to study.
Hate: Draconic blood being hammered down our throats at every turn. It was fine when it was listed as "one possible theory" in the PHB. Even a throw-away feat/PrC or two were fine, as they didn't take up much room and were easily ignored. The bloodline feats, etc. have started to make it seem canon that all sorcerers have a freak in their ancestry, which annoys me.
I also don't much care for them as a model of a "natural caster". Either warlock or psion fits that role better, IMO. I always say they are just focused casters who pretty much have (Improved) Spell Mastery for all their spells.
What I'd much prefer in a hypothetical 4E is to take the notion of the beguiler, warmage, etc. and make it more versatile. Give the sorcerer a broader list of spells known than he currently has, but limit him, absolutely, to those spells. If you don't choose fireball as a spell known, you can't use the wand of fireballs -- that sort of thing. Give them 4 skill points, d6 HD, light armor proficiency, and maybe a medium BAB.
Dislikes: Not quite enough spells to do anything stand-out. Too few skill points. No bonus abilities. Too narrow of a skill list. Same hps/bab as wizard. Really, it seems like sorcerers get their spells innately and automatically turn into lazy SOBs. None of them actually seem to do anything with the time they free up not having to to study.
Hate: Draconic blood being hammered down our throats at every turn. It was fine when it was listed as "one possible theory" in the PHB. Even a throw-away feat/PrC or two were fine, as they didn't take up much room and were easily ignored. The bloodline feats, etc. have started to make it seem canon that all sorcerers have a freak in their ancestry, which annoys me.
I also don't much care for them as a model of a "natural caster". Either warlock or psion fits that role better, IMO. I always say they are just focused casters who pretty much have (Improved) Spell Mastery for all their spells.
What I'd much prefer in a hypothetical 4E is to take the notion of the beguiler, warmage, etc. and make it more versatile. Give the sorcerer a broader list of spells known than he currently has, but limit him, absolutely, to those spells. If you don't choose fireball as a spell known, you can't use the wand of fireballs -- that sort of thing. Give them 4 skill points, d6 HD, light armor proficiency, and maybe a medium BAB.
Last edited:
werk
First Post
I like 'em.
I especially like that the spontaneous casting is offset by spell level (fireball at 6th level instead of 5), and that increased number of spells cast is offset by limited number of spells known. I think it's balanced that way.
I think that skill points per level makes sense, same as a wizard or cleric. Why should they have more skills exactly? Seems like wizards or clerics should have more, due to book learnin' or formal training, but that's not the topic here.
I don't like how they handled metamagic with sorcs. I can think of several different ways to improve it, but just ignoring it and saying, yeah, sorcs suck at metamagic, doesn't seem good enough.
I also don't like the celestial/infernal sorc feats from PH2. Celestial feats are underpowered for their cost and infernal feats are a bit overpowered when you compare the two against one another.
I also would not give sorcs a familiar, but my house rule lets them trade for a feat, same as wizards, so that's never really been a bone of contention IMC.
I especially like that the spontaneous casting is offset by spell level (fireball at 6th level instead of 5), and that increased number of spells cast is offset by limited number of spells known. I think it's balanced that way.
I think that skill points per level makes sense, same as a wizard or cleric. Why should they have more skills exactly? Seems like wizards or clerics should have more, due to book learnin' or formal training, but that's not the topic here.
I don't like how they handled metamagic with sorcs. I can think of several different ways to improve it, but just ignoring it and saying, yeah, sorcs suck at metamagic, doesn't seem good enough.
I also don't like the celestial/infernal sorc feats from PH2. Celestial feats are underpowered for their cost and infernal feats are a bit overpowered when you compare the two against one another.
I also would not give sorcs a familiar, but my house rule lets them trade for a feat, same as wizards, so that's never really been a bone of contention IMC.
Likes: Spontanious Casting
Dislikes: Low Skill Points, lack of class abilities and "forced" dragon blood.
Wizards are fine with two skill points/level because they have INT as the spell casting ability. Sorcerors aren't as lucky. They get a familiar - woo hoo. That's it. Give them some bonus feats and they will be much, much better. I don't mind dragon blood being one possable flavor option but there are many options out there.
Dislikes: Low Skill Points, lack of class abilities and "forced" dragon blood.
Wizards are fine with two skill points/level because they have INT as the spell casting ability. Sorcerors aren't as lucky. They get a familiar - woo hoo. That's it. Give them some bonus feats and they will be much, much better. I don't mind dragon blood being one possable flavor option but there are many options out there.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Likes:
Spontaneous casting. Once you get past 6th level is where it *really* starts to shine. It gives astonishing tactical flexibility.
Dislikes:
gimped metamagic. Should allow the sorcerers to just apply metamagic on the fly (thus allowing the use of quicken). This would offset the delayed spell acquisition.
The fact that they don't have to study like wizards and so get an additional benefit is a nice bit of flavour text, but they then foolishly decide that the benefit of that is 'all simple weapons' proficiency. It would have made much more sense to give either
d6 HD
or
4 skill points per level
or
more charisma based skills on their list
(or some combination of the three)
Cheers
Spontaneous casting. Once you get past 6th level is where it *really* starts to shine. It gives astonishing tactical flexibility.
Dislikes:
gimped metamagic. Should allow the sorcerers to just apply metamagic on the fly (thus allowing the use of quicken). This would offset the delayed spell acquisition.
The fact that they don't have to study like wizards and so get an additional benefit is a nice bit of flavour text, but they then foolishly decide that the benefit of that is 'all simple weapons' proficiency. It would have made much more sense to give either
d6 HD
or
4 skill points per level
or
more charisma based skills on their list
(or some combination of the three)
Cheers
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