sorcerer tweak.. comments/balance/etc?

[jayaint]

Quick (seemingly minor) sorcerer tweak:

Drop the free Summon Familiar ability. However, if a feat such as Improved Familiar, etc. is taken later the summoning process may still take place, though it now costs 100gp/level to summon the improved familiar.

Add Eschew Materials at first level.

Drop Craft and Profession from the skills list and add Diplomacy and Gather Information.

On the Spells per day chart: add a 0 in the 2nd level spells column @ 3rd level. Repeat this 0 in the 3rd level spells column @ 5th level. etc, etc. Basically, as rangers and bards have a 0-level in their casting progression, this allows for a sorcerer with exceptional ability to sneak into their next spell level at the same rate as ANY wizard. This also requires the addition of a "1*" to be added in the same spots on the Spells Known chart. The asterisk denotes that the spell chosen at this level cannot be one of the ones that can be swapped out later at 4th, 6th, etc.


Note: this tweak came about through a desire to try a spontaneaous caster/Mystic Theurge build. (And possibly an ascetic. Hence, Eschew Materials.) And waiting that extra level (4th for 2nd level spells) just didnt sound like much fun. *shrug* just curious if this would be unbalancing, or not.

 

[Nifft]

On the Spells per day chart: add a 0 in the 2nd level spells column @ 3rd level. Repeat this 0 in the 3rd level spells column @ 5th level. etc, etc. Basically, as rangers and bards have a 0-level in their casting progression, this allows for a sorcerer with exceptional ability to sneak into their next spell level at the same rate as ANY wizard. This also requires the addition of a "1*" to be added in the same spots on the Spells Known chart. The asterisk denotes that the spell chosen at this level cannot be one of the ones that can be swapped out later at 4th, 6th, etc.

We do something like this, but with no Spell Known at odd levels. Basically, the Sorcerer gains bonus high-level spell-slot(s), which he can use to do meta-magic or qualify for PrCs, but he doesn't actually know any spells of that level yet. If he hasn't got any meta-magic Feats, he can use the high-level spell-slot(s) to cast any spell known, per usual.

It's worked out fine so far.

-- N

 

[jayaint]

Cool, Nifft.

The main thing i am concerned with, and this is horribly munchkin'd/minmax'd is just getting a sorcerer into MT without waiting for 4th level. Which sounds REALLY silly, I know. But, even this tweak, flavor-wise, I think is a step in the right direction. I just don't want to break the class, in the process of acheving my (ridiculously powergamer-ing) goal.

 

[Nifft]

Under my house rules, a Sorcerer could qualify for MT at level 3, but he still couldn't cast any actual 2nd level spells until 4th level. His spell list remains small, and he's always a level behind Wizards in terms of highest spell known. On the other hand, he's better with metamagic than the Core sorcerer.

-- N

 

[jayaint]

I guess i need to come play in your game, Nifft.


This was posted free @ wizards.com so:

To qualify to become a mystic theurge, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.



do you have the wording of your house rule that would allow your sorcerer to qualify for this class? It would seem that until the sorcerer could cast invisibility or some other 2nd level spell, he/she wouldn't qualify.

 

[Nifft]

The wording is that Sorcerers can cast 2nd level spells at 3rd level. They just happen to not know any 2nd level spells yet. So, they can use 2nd level Scrolls without a Spellcraft roll, and they can take levels of Mystic Theurge.

The mechanic is modeled on a Wizard who has lost his spellbook -- he can cast spells, he just happens to not know any at the moment.

-- N

 

[Nightfall]

Bah. You want a better sorcerer, use Blessed of Mesos! Now that is a truly nasty little fella!

 

[Nightfall]

Mm bump?

 

[jayaint]

thanks for the hanson-esque bump, Nightfall.

Which book is the Blessed of Mesos in? and can you give me a short description (flavorwise) of what they are like?

 

[Atridis]

I'm also in the "Sorcerers blow" camp.

I also added Eschew Materials, but instead of altering the spell list, I gave them a d6 Hit Die and 4 Skill Points per level.

I've never played, or seen anyone play, the Mystic Theurge, so my tweak doesn't really help in that department.

I didn't know they could use higher-level spells than the ones they actually know. That makes them a little cooler, I guess.

I've never heard of the Blessed of Mesos before, either.