Sorcerer unfettered power

[jester_gl]

If I roll a 1, do I have to push every target within 5 square or can I choose which one I want to push? I guess the specific of this feature (must) trump the generic rule of the forced movement (decide if you want to push), but I want to be sure.

Also, in the case of Thunder Leap where I get to make multiple attack role, then move, then make other attack rolls, when are all target within 5 square moved? After the power is resolved? After the push on hit of others? After the first attack but before the jump?

Let's just say that this power is true chaos when attacking 3 (crit, hit and 1) then jump and attack 2 others (hit and 1).

 

[Llamas Notsheep]

If I roll a 1, do I have to push every target within 5 square or can I choose which one I want to push? I guess the specific of this feature (must) trump the generic rule of the forced movement (decide if you want to push), but I want to be sure.

Also, in the case of Thunder Leap where I get to make multiple attack role, then move, then make other attack rolls, when are all target within 5 square moved? After the power is resolved? After the push on hit of others? After the first attack but before the jump?

Let's just say that this power is true chaos when attacking 3 (crit, hit and 1) then jump and attack 2 others (hit and 1).

You're correct that "must push" trumps the general forced movement rule. I would say that the push takes place at the time of the attack roll, since the class feature says "When you roll a natural 1 ... you must push..." Your DM might feel otherwise, but it seems pretty clear under RAW.

 

[Rothe_]

I'd just resolve everything in order. Since area attacks happen simultaneously, roll all the hit rolls first. Then resolve the special effect from the unfettered power and then deal damage and effects. This is how I'd do it. If you rolled hits on targets that would now be out of the area, I'd still make them take damage and effects since they were in the area when the hit was rolled. That kind of makes the push 1 stack with the other effects of the thunder leap, but I don't think it is really a problem.

You *do* have to push everyone within 5, since it says *you must*.

 

[eamon]

You *do* have to push everyone within 5, since it says *you must*.

The order of pushing might matter though, just as the direction does.

For instance, can you push someone toward a wall when you could push them along the wall? i.e. can you pick a direction of push which has no effect? If you cannot, this can be terribly nasty near pits.

Also, in what order are these pushes resolved? for instance, if person A is behind B (from your perspective) can you choose to push A first to make space for B and then push B - and, conversely, can you choose to push B first (against A, and thus fail to push), and then push A - freeing a square of space between them?

 

[eamon]

You're correct that "must push" trumps the general forced movement rule. I would say that the push takes place at the time of the attack roll, since the class feature says "When you roll a natural 1 ... you must push..." Your DM might feel otherwise, but it seems pretty clear under RAW.

Well, when you roll a natural 20 you score a hit (probably a critical hit, too). Nevertheless, critical hits are still resolved after the attack roll. Just like any other effects of an attack, this is clearly resolved after the attack roll - the word "when" here indicates a rule that triggers on a condition, not at a point in time here.

Compare "When it's two o'clock I'll jump" with "When the fuse was lit, he ran" - the first implies a particular moment and possibly simultaneity, whereas the second implies an sequence of events, and usually one where the sequence is causal and thus the events necessarily are not simultaneous.

 

[fireinthedust]

I think specific time in the chain is the wrong way to look at things. You're tapping into your sorcerous power and fumble that: bam, everyone around you is knocked back and away.

Because it's a fumble (natural 1) the push should be directly away, not pulled or shifted or what have you. If that's near a pit and the wizard dies... well, it sucks, but that's the penalty. Keep in mind it can be a good thing (ie: the sorcerer is being mobbed). Also, on a 20 there's full damage + prone. If the sorcerer was fighting Orcus, say, either one could come in handy.

 

[Stalker0]

As far as RAW goes, you can choose how to push your guys around. Now I believe the power says you must push them, but since its a normal forced movement affect, the person doing the moving (which is the sorc), gets to choose how things are moved.

So if his allies get pushed a little gentler, and his enemy gets thrown off a cliff...well, that's those lucky pcs for ya!

 

[Prestidigitalis]

You're tapping into your sorcerous power and fumble that: bam, everyone around you is knocked back and away.

I know it's just a flavor thing, but "fumble" sounds wrong to me. I would think of it more as "This is Wild Magic. Anything can happen, and will."

 

[Camelot]

I would rule that the pushes happen after applying the attack's other effects, to parallel with the first part of unfettered power. From an English major's point of view, that would be how to read it. Parallelism and all.

If the sorcerer uses Thunder Leap (level 5) targeting 3 creatures, crits on one, hits another, and fumbles on the third, I would have the following happen. The damage is dealt appropriately, then the critted creature is slid and knocked prone, and then all the creatures within 5 squares are pushed 1. Then the sorcerer leaps and uses the secondary attack. He hits and fumbles. He deals the damage, then pushes the hit target one square, then pushes all creatures within 5 squares of him 1 square. Then his turn ends and he grants combat advantage until the start of his next turn, probably because he's really confused about what just happened.

I imagine from an in game perspective that the sorcerer lets out a huge burst initially, but then, instead of jumping, gets hurled into the air from the explosion and falls flat somewhere else, releasing another huge burst, which tosses him up a bit again, but he lands back down on his feet, extremely confused.

On a side note, wild sorcerers are the coolest class yet, because they get into situations like this.

 

[fireinthedust]

I know it's just a flavor thing, but "fumble" sounds wrong to me. I would think of it more as "This is Wild Magic. Anything can happen, and will."

yeah, except it's on a natural 1. Critical fumble.

As for critting on one foe and fumbling on another with the same power... yeah, that's cool. it's an explosion of Wild Magic: "Anything can happen, and will!"