"Speaker in Dreams" is one of the twinkiest adventures ever written

[darkbard]

since this thread has become as much a debate over high magic/high fantasy vs. low magic/realism as it is about the merits of this specific adventure, i think it's important to point out the following: the adventure as written does not violate the outline for party strength vs. appropriate challenge as outlined in the dmg. that is, the way the game is written, players of this level should be facing commensurate challenges and reaping similar rewards. one can debate the logical consistency of fiendish dinosaurs and illithids in a city adventure 'til a gate to the fiendish planes opens, but one cannot fairly criticize the adventure along level-appropriate lines.

now, everyone's idea of the ideal campaign flavor differs slightly, but as part of the adventure path series this adventure is written at a sort of medium-default. this game is called dungeons and dragons for a reason. the games are assumed to include an element of the fantastic. adventurers exist to save "civilized societies" from monstrous threats, evil sorcerers and clerics, orc hordes, and what not. this adventure does a fine job of outlining the vast array of possible threats characters can face. and while it is a fun, challenging and coherent adventure in its own right, it is also a blueprint for dm's designing their own adventures--illustrating how to tie disparate elements into a cohesive whole, expanding the number of paints on the dm's palette, if you will. these elements will not appeal to all players, of course, but they are the assumed standard from which individual games vary to a greater or lesser extent in either direction.

 

[Bagpuss]

Well thanks I did put some effort into adapting the adventure to my campaign, but I stopped when it got to the point, where there was more work I'd done on the module than was in the module itself.

The only reason I buy modules is to save me time planning as a DM, if I had the time to do all the work myself I would do (as I currently am doing for an AFMBE game for Halloween), but my time is limited and to make Speaker in Dreams a half decent adventure the DM has to break it down to barebones and build it back up almost from scratch.

You didn't need to do anywhere near as much work as in the other modules in the series.

 

[Fenes 2]

If you run a module as 'vanilla' and quoted directly from the book... Of course it will be dull and boring and 'not special'. You need to, as a GM, invest time and loving care into everything you do. You need to read the module 10-20 times all the way through, before you run it. You then need to say to yourself 'Hm... Well this X monster doesn't fit well for my game... Let me modify it like this.. And add this plot element... And ah ha! Perfect!'

Modules are like the D&D game in general... Great to use as an outline, but very free form and wanting attention and change at every turn.

There has yet to be a single module to me that, run as vanilla, worked great. There always needs to be fleshing out. If you devote time and interest to a module, and revamp it so that it works in your game better... It will show, and not only will your players like it more, you will too.

Now that is why I do not use bought modules (or any "detailed" modules) at all. The amount of work I would have to put into them before running them is just too big to justify the expense. I'd rather have an idea and then flesh it out myself, customizing it for my party, than have a whole module that I need to break up and rebuild to fit my campaign.

Now a module made to be plugged into a very wide range of campaigns, or a series of mini-modules that can serve as sprinboards for subplots and mini-campaigns, that would be neat. Something like the mini-adventures WotC has on their site.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Now that is why I do not use bought modules (or any "detailed" modules) at all. The amount of work I would have to put into them before running them is just too big to justify the expense. I'd rather have an idea and then flesh it out myself, customizing it for my party, than have a whole module that I need to break up and rebuild to fit my campaign.

Same here. I frequently think about the general scope of my campaigns and adventurers, but the actual preparation time is only one to two hours per session. I write up a few NPC/monster stats, sketch a few maps, and that's it.

If I had to read and prepare an entire module, it would take me much longer... It is probably different for newbie GMs, who have to do more preparation anyway, but for me, running a published adventure would be too much of a drag when improvising is much easier...

 

[Bob5th]

I've ran through this adventure and it has been on of my favorites so far out of the first 4 in the series. We had a chance to compete in some games and such before the poop hit the fan.

 

[Bagpuss]

I've ran through this adventure and it has been on of my favorites so far out of the first 4 in the series. We had a chance to compete in some games and such before the poop hit the fan.

Compete in games? What games?

 

[Bob5th]

Different games from "Tournaments, Fairs & Taverns".

 

[Bagpuss]

So they weren't actually part of the adventure as published then...

The prosecution has no further questions your honour.

 

[King_Stannis]

Actually having played through the adventure...
It was just as goofy as people have said. It just seemed like someone had dumped a monster bash dungeon in the city. And then we meet the illithid, and we all just thought "buh? why was he there?".

To us, it looked like a random group of monsters had been chucked into the city, with no rhyme, reason or planning. I'm just glad it's over.

Yep, you've hit the nail on the head. I have no doubt this would have been the reaction of my group, too.

Hey, if some of you like this kind of thing, then more power to you. My players would look pretty queerly at me if I threw this adventure at them as written.

In the Adventure Backround, it says Ghaerleth was an outcast from his kind. Then in the next paragraph it says his ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a new illithid empire. Come on! The guy takes over one small human (well, somewhat human) town on the surface and he expects that that is somehow the lynchpin in building a new illithid empire? Would any of his kind know? Would any even care?

Just a silly excuse to throw a bunch of monsters at the PC's, in my opinion. My players would have been in full revolt or laughing their asses off at the Fiendish Dinosaurs.

Again, this is not an indictment of high magic. It's an indictment of a lame plot involving a gaggle of monsters that are related by only the slenderest of plot threads.

I've run "Gaxmoor", which had it's share of diverse monsters, too. Yet somehow that adventure had its own logic and it didn't seem so, well, silly.

 

[S'mon]

I've run "Gaxmoor", which had it's share of diverse monsters, too. Yet somehow that adventure had its own logic and it didn't seem so, well, silly.

I'm currently running Gaxmoor - see review & thread in Story Hour - it also has gargoyles & a couple of demons in a city, but since the city is ruined & occupied by evil forces there's little plausibility problem. Indeed most people would regard Gaxmoor as being lowish-magic by 3e standards! The great bulk of the opposition are humanoid hordes, more exotic stuff is much rarer. My biggest problem with Gaxmoor has been the lack of 3e 'balance' - most fights have either been quite easy or impossibly difficult.