Special Magic weapon creations: sword of subtley

[Globetrotter]

How... how how how..

I have a character that wants to add the properties of the sword of subtley (core p. 477) to his +1 weapon. I can't for the life of me even figure out how the developers came up with the costs for the listed product, let alone find out the cost to add it.

This is what I can figure:

material cost: 310 (10 gp for the sword, 300 for masterwork)

Enchantment bonus: +1, 2,000 gp
situational bonus (sneak attack damage): +4

This one I have questions about... per the rules, p. 549, if the power is dependent on a class ability, there is a 30% reduction in price... so is this a reduction on a +4 weapon (32,000 base gp price) or +5 (50,000 gp price) since this would be classified as a +5 on the weapon chart?

if so, the price will either be 22,400 (+4) or 35,000 (+5).

So, right now we are looking at either: 24,710 or 37,310 to buy or a create price of 12,355 or 18,655 (based off create is 1/2 of base price).

Am I doing this right? The book values are 22,310 purchase and 11,310 creation. How did they come up with these numbers?

Also, how did they come up with a CL of 7th level? This has me completely confused. Help....

 

[Andras]

It looks like a flat +20,000gp price adjustment. Dunno about the CL.

 

[Starbuck_II]

How... how how how..

I have a character that wants to add the properties of the sword of subtley (core p. 477) to his +1 weapon. I can't for the life of me even figure out how the developers came up with the costs for the listed product, let alone find out the cost to add it.

This is what I can figure:

material cost: 310 (10 gp for the sword, 300 for masterwork)

Enchantment bonus: +1, 2,000 gp
situational bonus (sneak attack damage): +4

This one I have questions about... per the rules, p. 549, if the power is dependent on a class ability, there is a 30% reduction in price... so is this a reduction on a +4 weapon (32,000 base gp price) or +5 (50,000 gp price) since this would be classified as a +5 on the weapon chart?

if so, the price will either be 22,400 (+4) or 35,000 (+5).

So, right now we are looking at either: 24,710 or 37,310 to buy or a create price of 12,355 or 18,655 (based off create is 1/2 of base price).

Am I doing this right? The book values are 22,310 purchase and 11,310 creation. How did they come up with these numbers?

Also, how did they come up with a CL of 7th level? This has me completely confused. Help....

Usually, Special weapons/armor are a cost not a +X cost.

 

[Sylrae]

The magic items formula isn't strictly followed. they use it as a starting point and then adjust up or down until it sounds reasonable. (I believe it says this in the GMG, but there's definitely some threads about it on the paizo boards).

you said he only has a +1 weapon, which matches up to what's on the Sword of Subtlety? I'd say subtract the material costs for the mwk sswd. put in the costs for the mwk whatever they want to use. Use that as the total value of their new item. Subtract what they've already paid into the thing to make them pay for the enchantment.

It'b be alot trickier to figure out how to add it to a +2 weapon. or how to increase the thing to a +2.

What *I'd probably do*, is count the sneak attack bonus as a +2 bonus with an additional flat cost to make up the difference.

So.

+1 sswd of subtlety: 22310
Materials: + 310
Easy enough:

+1 x of subtlety:22000
+1 Bonus: + 2000
+2 Bonus (Subtlety): +16000
Flat price uppage: 6000
=22000

So:

Of Subtlety:
+2 Named Bonus
+6000gold

 

[coyote6]

That should be +4000 gp, shouldn't it? A +3-equivalent weapon is 18k gp; 22k-18k=4k.

One of the 3e designers once discussed the price of things like dwarven thrower, holy avenger, sword of subtlety, etc., on a website or message board, and suggested that +x-equivalent abilities for weapons & armor be treated like other prices -- so you would apply the percent cost reduction (like 30% for only usable by paladins) to the +-equivalent, getting a fractional number; then just multiply that number out. So a +1 weapon that becomes the equivalent of a +4 weapon in the hands of a rogue would be treated as a +1 + (3 * 0.7) = a +3.1 weapon, which would have a cost of 19,220 gp. Fairly close to the sword of subtlety.

If you make it -25% cost reduction, you get a +3.25-equivalent weapon, which would be 21,125 gp. Then if you wanted to make it +2 normally, +5 when sneak attacking, it would be a (2+2.25)=+4.25 equivalent, or 36,125 gp, or an extra 15,000 gp to improve it.

As a +2 shocking keen sword of subtlety, it would be (+2+1+1+2.25)^2*2000=78,125 gp (plus the cost of the MW weapon, of course).

<shrug> I cannot remember where I found that suggestion, but it's worked okay for me, to approximate prices. Round off as you feel appropriate.

 

[Sylrae]

That should be +4000 gp, shouldn't it? A +3-equivalent weapon is 18k gp; 22k-18k=4k.

Whoops, I was using the same total, but was using 16000, the difference between a +1 and a +3. 4k is the number I meant. Good catch

One of the 3e designers once discussed the price of things like dwarven thrower, holy avenger, sword of subtlety, etc., on a website or message board, and suggested that +x-equivalent abilities for weapons & armor be treated like other prices -- so you would apply the percent cost reduction (like 30% for only usable by paladins) to the +-equivalent, getting a fractional number; then just multiply that number out. So a +1 weapon that becomes the equivalent of a +4 weapon in the hands of a rogue would be treated as a +1 + (3 * 0.7) = a +3.1 weapon, which would have a cost of 19,220 gp. Fairly close to the sword of subtlety.

If you make it -25% cost reduction, you get a +3.25-equivalent weapon, which would be 21,125 gp. Then if you wanted to make it +2 normally, +5 when sneak attacking, it would be a (2+2.25)=+4.25 equivalent, or 36,125 gp, or an extra 15,000 gp to improve it.

As a +2 shocking keen sword of subtlety, it would be (+2+1+1+2.25)^2*2000=78,125 gp (plus the cost of the MW weapon, of course).

<shrug> I cannot remember where I found that suggestion, but it's worked okay for me, to approximate prices. Round off as you feel appropriate.

O.O YOINK! This is a much better way to do it!

One note though. sword of subtlety is is it +1/+4, or +1/+5? I'd have read that +4 when sneak attacking to be added to the +1.