Special offer on Boiling Water, apply now at the gate.

[Old_school_overlord]

Remember that you don't really want to slaughter the PC's, only humiliate them. So allow them some method or three to get away and reconsider their fortunes.

No wizard? You got it easy!

What I like about this set up is that if it looks like I'm straying into TPK terratory, I can just have the Kobolds retreat & hole up. Much harder to justify that with a Bodak or whatever...

Besides, Kobolds with alchemists can't do more than a few d6 a turn, gonna take a long time depleting their healing doing that. Currently their carving through my dungeon quite efficiently, facing monsters that are happy to go toe-to-toe - the warrens will be a good change : )

Are their any good resources for more traps people can steer me towards?

 

[mhensley]

Are their any good resources for more traps people can steer me towards?

The Dungeonscape book is an excellent source for new trap ideas and mechanics. IIRC, it has an encounter trap featuring kobolds and spears.

 

[krupintupple]

i'd definitely keep the boiling oil, but also go with the boiling water, but tweak it a little.

water will be cheaper than oil for these kobolds, but being the tricksy little buggers they are, they'd probably soup it up, no pun intended. i'd add things like dead animal parts, limbs from past victims and bits of bodily waste to the boiling vats. i'd rule it that the boiling oil does 2d6 whereas the boiling sewage only does 1d6 nonlethal, but requires a DC 13 Fort. or something or you're sickened for as many rounds as points of damage you took.

additionally, if anyone is hit by both in the same round i'd say that the oil only does half damage, as it reacts badly with the boiled sewage, cooling it, but the ensuing blast of scalding sewage vapour doubles the time the poor bastard is sickened.

that way, it's not super deadly, but can chip away at the front line fighters. it'l also make a really memorable fight that will emphasize the sneakyness and the underhandedness of the kobolds involved. and really, who wants to be slicked head to toe in boiling-hot sewage?

 

[MithrasRahl]

What are all of your thoughts on not allowing a save for something like this? What penalties would you impose to allow a trap to no allow a save?

This stems from a World of Darkness Campaign I was in about 5 years ago. I spent the better part of the session rolling ones, and basically couldn't do anything. I had to beg and plead with the GM to allow me to throw my body (had taken a perk that made me huge, 250 lbs +) down the stairs without an attack roll to stop attackers from chasing our extremely hurt party member, as I could not seem to do anything that required a roll.

I know D&D is different, but do you ever allow traps/spells to go off without a save for "sense" reasons?

 

[Old_school_overlord]

Well, if someone is tied up or otherwise helpless, they wouldn't be allowed a save and would just take the damage...

For a trap designed to deal damage, I think it should always either allow a save or require an attack/touch attack roll. I guess you could have a trap that fires magic missiles at people, but it's pretty lame to just tell people they start taking damage and there's no way to avoid it.

Alot of the traps in DMG seem really weird, the price is simply ridiculous on most of them - usually x5 the value of whatever they are intended to protect?! And many of them are very dangerous for their suggested CR.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I say you go with the boiling tar...

then hit 'em with a couple sacks of chicken feathers...

then hit 'em with flaming arrows.

Voila! Flame-roasted chicken!

The kobolds will be eating well tonight.

 

[javcs]

I say you go with the boiling tar...

then hit 'em with a couple sacks of chicken feathers...

then hit 'em with flaming arrows.

Voila! Flame-roasted chicken!

The kobolds will be eating well tonight.

On topic:
Kobold warren? Narrow passages, low ceiling, invoke the squeezing rules. Although, somewhat surprisingly, I can't find that they produce a penalty on Reflex saves, but they do penalize AC ... I'd say a penalty to Reflex saves would not be unreasonable to houserule. If I hadn't just checked, I'd've said that there was one.
And Kobolds love all kinds of traps ... squeezing + traps of various effects = kobold crazy-happy-fun-time

 

[moritheil]

I know D&D is different, but do you ever allow traps/spells to go off without a save for "sense" reasons?

Absolutely not. Players took feats/levels to get their saves; denying them that is like letting someone roll up a wizard and then announcing that the entire campaign takes place on a world bathed in antimagic.

In WoD the ST has a lot more control than in DnD. IIRC, in early Mage, the ST used to be able to flat-out say that a dice roll never happened or was not applicable.

You know you really shouldn't be talking- lacking an intelligence stat and all. Why you're not even in the monster manual anymore.

Clearly he's phrenic.

 

[green slime]

You know you really shouldn't be talking- lacking an intelligence stat and all. Why you're not even in the monster manual anymore.

*Sigh*

I miss the good old days of 1e, when large clumps of me had psionic abilities...

*eyes mist over*

Ahhhhh, those were the days.....

 

[eamon]

Vegetable oil, is actually quite easy to manufacture, and could be readily available. Being thicker in consistency than water, it also retains heat better, and would leave very nasty burns, and clings better to the victim.

Water has an exceptionally high heat capacity, and despite boiling at a lower temperature, thus actually contains about as much heat as boiling oil. Furthmore, it's denser. Other matters make pitch interesting: firstly, it doesn't evaporate as quickly, meaning it doesn't cool down while you're trying to boil it, and secondly, it might actually be solid at body-temperature: And that means you can get a little extra heat-boost from the latent heat of fusion - and, let's not overlook the fact that you can get it to burn (though not that easily).

Nevertheless, boiling water is extremely dangerous. If you're in a kitchen, you're not much worse off pouring boiling oil on yourself than boiling water. And water vapor is truly nasty... People actually regularly die from accidents involving water vapor, so don't underestimate it.

I wonder if you can get large vats of boiling oil and vats of boiling water to ignite when poured...

It would be my guess that pouring multiple gallons of boiling water over someone is more reliably fatal than a sword wound, but that's admittedly speculation. It will certainly incapacitate you quicker; so indeed a solid batch of nonlethal damage on top of the lethal damage is probably not unreasonable.