"Specialist" Sorcerers: How do you balance them?

[Forrester]

A guy in my campaign doesn't want to play a wizard, but he also doesn't want to play a run-of-the-mill sorcerer . . . he likes the no-memorization thing, but wants to limit his spells to two schools. (He's picked Conjuration and Divination, not because they are the most powergamey combination to pick, but for other reasons).

The question is, how do I balance him, given that he's disallowed himself SO MANY spells?

Let's face it -- the main strength of the sorcerer is that he can sample from all the schools and take the best spells. Magic Missile, Improved Invis, Haste, Dispel Magic, Confusion, Summon Monster VI -- all from different schools, and all very good at their level.

This sorcerer (let's call him Billy Dare, Boy Sorcerer, or BDBS for short) won't have that option.

Given how many spells specialist wizards get, and they have a lot more freedom than BDBS, I was thinking of giving him twice the normal known-spell limit, using the munchkinny Monte Cook sorcerer as a base. But now I'm thinking that even that might be too limiting. I'm actually toying with giving him ALL the divination and conjuration spells of each level -- he'd be just like the old spontaneously casting clerics of 2E, except he's limited to two spheres.

Am I insane?

 

[las]

Give him a +2 Save dificulty with the spells he casts. That seam right to me.

 

[Forrester]

Give him a +2 Save dificulty with the spells he casts. That seam right to me.

Yeah, because his opponents are going to be saving like crazy against all those Conjuration spells, right?

 

[las]

But that was idea that might work but for the fact that He picket two schools that dont have many saves this might not work.

 

[Mr.Binx]

Simple, tell him to choose nothing but spells from those two schools and then choose feats that increase the potency of those two schools. If he wants to use spells from only two schools then tell him to do so. He doesn't get to pick a whole lot of spells anyway as a sorceror. There's no need to bend the rules for something that's already possible. The only thing he is losing is the bonus to spellcraft rolls and extra spell per level (which he doesn't need as a sorceror anyway since he already has a buttload of spells he can cast per day).

 

[the Jester]

Personally I wouldn't really throw him much of a bone on this, spells are always a roleplaying decision to a certain extent when playing a sorcerer.

Give him _all_ the conjuration and divination spells of his level?? No offense, but are you crazy??? By the time he can cast 2nd level spells he'll be able to immobilize (web), damage (acid arrow), find (locate object), and disappear (fog cloud). Yikes. That, combined with the number of spells he'll be able to cast each day and the ultimate sorcerer versatility, makes him WAY better than an equal level wizard any day, and I didn't even mention his 1st level spells.

I'd maybe give him augmented summoning for free (T&B), but that's it. He'll still be able to do just about anything he could with most other schools, he just has to pick the right spells to do it with conjuration.

 

[Forrester]

Well, I *did* ask if I was crazy .

I dunno. Making it impossible to ever cast Dispel Magic or Haste or Fly or Fireball or Teleport or Disentegrate or any buffing/mass damage spell in general just seems to me to be a huge restriction that goes above and beyond. And he's still a sorcerer, meaning he gets spells slower than wizards do.

Still, point taken . The Conjuration sphere is pretty flexible. I'm allowing him twice the normal spells known . . . I think I'll keep it at that.

 

[fuindordm]

Variant sorcerers

Have you seen the Domain-based sorcerers out there? They might be just what your player is looking for.

Sorcerer Domain System

Meepo's Sorcerer Domain System

My own version is the best, but unfortunately I'm between web servers at the moment. Here's a precis of the concept:

The basic idea of this variant is that half the sorcerer's spells come from two arcane "domains" appropriate to their bloodline. The domains come with minor powers, just like the clerical domains, and the first two spells learned at each spell level come from the domains. This guy could take the Summoning and Erudition domains, for example. There is no restriction on the other spells that the sorcerer can take, but it forces their powers into a theme. For example,

Erudition: You cast divinations at +1 caster level, all knowledge skills are class skills, gain Read Magic as an extra cantrip.
You gain 1 extra skill point per level (4 at
first level), but these bonus points must be
spent on knowledge skills.

1.Comprehend Languages
2.Detect Thoughts
3.Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4.Scrying
5.Contact Other Plane
6.True Seeing
7.Vision
8.Discern Location
9.Foresight

Summoning: Knowledge (the planes) is a class skill. Creatures that you summon must be compatible with your bloodline, but gain a +1 competence bonus to hit and damage and one extra HP per hit die.

1.Mount or Summon Monster I
2.Summon Swarm or SM II
3.Phantom Steed or SM III
4.Dimensional Anchor or SM IV
5.Major Creation or Dismissal or SM V
6.Planar Binding or SM VI
7.Banishment or SM VII
8.Greater Planar Binding or sm VIII
9.Gate or Summon Monster IX

The sorcerer starts with one domain only, so gets a first level spell from that domain and a first-level spell of their choice. At second level they get an additional level one spell and a cantrip of their choice, and at third level they gain access to their second domain (and get another first-level spell known). At every even level thereafter, they get their domain spells for the new level; at every odd level they get two spells of their choice (with the exception of levels 19 and 20, where they get only 1 ninth-level spell rather than 2).

--Ben Mathiesen

 

[Plane Sailing]

To be honest, I don't think you should give him anything special. A standard sorcerer gets to choose, what, only 4 spells of level 3/4/5 and only 3 spells of the levels above that...

It is a roleplaying choice to say I'm going to learn Flame Arrow/Stinking Cloud/Clairvoyance/Summon Monster III as my 3rd level spells, Lesser Planar Binding/Contact Other Plane/Wall of Iron/SummonMonsterV for the 5th level spells...

There is nothing to stop him choosing his spells (and feats) to reflect the kind of sorcerer which he wants to be.

If you really wanted to give him some kind of bonus you could offer up conjuration or divination spells from Magic of Faerun or some other source as additional choices...

Your suggestion of giving him all the conj/div spells of each level is insane (you asked!). You would eventually be giving him 7 spells known at 7th & 8th levels, instead of the *3* which will normally be expected.

Between the Planar Binding spells and the higher Summon Monster spells he has access to all the other schools of magic he could reasonable want anyway!

Regards

 

[Jeph]

You could try giving him a metamagic/item creation bonus feat at 6th, 12th, and 18th level. While not overpowering, and not accesable to pretty modest levels, this does adequately compensate for the loss of *6* schools of magic. Maybe you could give him a bonus at lv1 to, because, i mean, 6 schools really is a lot, if you think about it. No invisibility, fireball, phantasmal killer-sheesh.

Well, at least he has stuff like Acid Arrow.

"You let the fish get away?!"
-Koron the Magnificent, durring Kolmer's Hunt

-Jeph