"Specialist" Sorcerers: How do you balance them?

[Chris_Nightwing]

Not that insane

Well, take a look at Wizards. It is obvious that it is fair for them to get a bonus spell per day, at the expense of one or two schools they cannot cast from. For sorcerors, as their abilities are supposed to be innate, a little more consideration is needed. My suggestion is for the player to select just one school for their specialisation. Then they are allowed to cast one extra spell of that school per spell level per day, and may also know one extra spell of that school per spell level. The disadvantage is that at least two spells at each spell level must be from this school (meaning at 1st level they only have that school, and at later levels when they gain spells of a new level they will be from their school).

Don't know if this is balanced blah blah blah, but maybe it will do for you.

 

[Chacal]

The problem I have with giving more spell known is that you're exchanging spellknown flexibility(less schools) with spellknown flexibility(more spells).

Otherwise stated, with some specific character in mind, the PC isn't giving anything away. It's just that some spell selections aren't very powerful. But I think it's a good thing that a sorcerer move away from the standard powerful spelllist, and he should be given something to balance it out.

I would not change his #spellknown, but give him some other bonus not tied to spell known.

The bonus metamagic feats (lvl 1-5-10-15-20) could be cool (it's another kind of flexibility).

More class skills like Knowledge (monsters, the planes) or bonus to these skills could help.



Chacal

 

[Ace]

Am I insane?

Probably. You are here aren't you

Seriously though my quick solution to balancing Sorcerers and Bards and Channelers oh my is to allow bonus spells known based on the stats. Its only 1 or 2 spells known but it makes them a little more balanced.

 

[Forrester]

Maybe I was insane for suggesting the get all of the spells, but I gotta admit that I think some of you are nutcakes for suggesting that the sacrifice of SIX SCHOOLS OF MAGIC can be balanced out by giving him a couple Knowledge skills as class skills and giving him a bonus feat every five levels.

 

[Jens]

How about something like...

Sorcerer Specialization

Advantages:
- One extra known spell from the chosen school (gained when first spell is learned).
- +2 to spellcraft checks regarding the chosen school.

Disadvantages
- The two first spells known of each level must belong to chosen school.
- Spells from opposed school/schools (chosen as wizard specialist) are not on the specialist’s spell list, meaning that he cannot learn them and cannot use scrolls, wands, etc. with those spells.

... it seems a little strong to me, maybe double the number of opposed schools so that to specialize in a large school, you'd have to give up the other two (or equivalent)?

Edit:

If double-specializing (conj & div) like this, he'd have to give up all other schools but one (evoc or trans) or two (of nec, ill, ench, abj). He'd get 2 extra spells known of each level but not many to choose from. His expertise would be very focused, but I think it could work.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Maybe I was insane for suggesting the get all of the spells, but I gotta admit that I think some of you are nutcakes for suggesting that the sacrifice of SIX SCHOOLS OF MAGIC can be balanced out by giving him a couple Knowledge skills as class skills and giving him a bonus feat every five levels.

But it is simply not the restriction that it is to wizards.

Wizards specialising all lose out because every wizard could, in theory, know every spell of every level (unless they specialise).

NO Sorcerer will know more than 3-4 spells of most spell levels. To that extent sorcerers must *already* specialised.

Some players will attempt to pick lists of "optimal" spells for their sorcerers, picking from across all the schools, other players will pick spells based on a theme that they like, or to take more advantage of "spell focus" feats - the enchantment specialist, the evoker specialist or even the conjurer specialist.

By saying that he wants to limit himself to conjuration and divination spells he is doing nothing more than any other sorcerer who decides to pick a theme. Basically he isn't giving up anything that other sorcerers don't give up by their very nature!

 

[apoptosis]

In my game. Specialist sorcerers gain

1 xtra known spell per spell level of their specialty.

They get automatic spell defense (school..cant remember name of feat +2 sv vs that school)

spell focus (school).

They are limited to that school though (they can pay a 2 for 1 cost to learn a spell from another school and are prohibited from certain schools like a specialist wizard).

But my campaign is pretty house-ruled with many variant so not sure if this is much help to standard campaign.

Gnome illusionists are sorcerers and not wizards IMC

Wizard specialization is a feat as well.

 

[Forrester]

Some players will attempt to pick lists of "optimal" spells for their sorcerers, picking from across all the schools, other players will pick spells based on a theme that they like, or to take more advantage of "spell focus" feats - the enchantment specialist, the evoker specialist or even the conjurer specialist.

By saying that he wants to limit himself to conjuration and divination spells he is doing nothing more than any other sorcerer who decides to pick a theme. Basically he isn't giving up anything that other sorcerers don't give up by their very nature!

Baloney. There may be enchantment specialists and evoker specialist sorcerers out there, but I am very skeptical that any of them have a known spell list lacking Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Dispel Magic, Haste, Teleport, Fly, and so on. Maybe they don't have all of them, but I very much doubt that there is a high-level sorcerer specialist (pure PHB) out there today that lacks ALL of those spells.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Baloney.

Isn't that one of those delicious german sausages?

OK, how about this: he is so specialised that the other spells effectively *don't appear on his spell list*, so he cannot use spell trigger items (wands etc) for spells which are not either conjuration or divination.

If you give him this draconian degree of specialisation, then I would grant him one extra spell known per spell level and a +2 to all his spell DC's. Possibly even your original idea of (eventually) making all spells in his schools knowable to him... the question is the rate of acquisition. Perhaps he has double the number of spells known at each level?

(see, I'm trying to be helpful too! I like house rules!)

Cheers

 

[Forrester]

Isn't that one of those delicious german sausages?

OK, how about this: he is so specialised that the other spells effectively *don't appear on his spell list*, so he cannot use spell trigger items (wands etc) for spells which are not either conjuration or divination.

If you give him this draconian degree of specialisation, then I would grant him one extra spell known per spell level and a +2 to all his spell DC's. Possibly even your original idea of (eventually) making all spells in his schools knowable to him... the question is the rate of acquisition. Perhaps he has double the number of spells known at each level?

(see, I'm trying to be helpful too! I like house rules!)

Cheers

That is EXACTLY how specialized he is -- he can't use wands or scrolls of any of the other schools. That's one helluva limitation. My current thought is doubling the number of spells known at each level -- exactly what you suggest -- I was just wondering whether that's still too limiting.