Spell changes: good or bad?

[Durifern]

I'm sure it was all discussed to death but still.
What do you think of the changes of these spells in 3.5:

Bull's Strength etc.: 1 min/level
IMO that's OK...

Longstride: 1h/level
A bit strong for a first level spell...

Sleep: up to 4 HD
Was 2d4 overpowered? Wouldn't have thought so...

Invisibility: 1min/level
Pretty short!

Scorching Ray: 4d6 and it scales! Wow, wouldn't wanna miss that one!

Darkness: I better skip that!

Thanks for input!

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Bull's Strength etc.: 1 min/level
IMO that's OK...

I don't have as huge a problem with it as other people do, but I do think it was cut back a little -- just a little -- too harshly. It should be 10 min/level, and it should be either +3 or +5 bonus (to give a little more utility to sub-optimal odd stats).

Longstride: 1h/level
A bit strong for a first level spell...

It's got a pretty exclusive -- and appropriate -- caster list. I don't have a problem with this one.

Sleep: 1d4 HD
Was 2d4 overpowered? Wouldn't have thought so...

It's not "1d4 HD" but rather "up to 4 HD." I dunno why the change, but it's not particularly major, on average.

Invisibility: 1min/level
Pretty short!

All you need, for recon or tactical maneuvering.

Scorching Ray: 4d6 and it scales! Wow, wouldn't wanna miss that one!

Yeah, this is a damned fine spell.

Darkness: I better skip that!

Nobody can quite figure this one out.

 

[Gnimish88]

I'm sure it was all discussed to death but still.
What do you think of the changes of these spells in 3.5:

Bull's Strength etc.: 1 min/level
IMO that's OK...

Longstride: 1h/level
A bit strong for a first level spell...

Sleep: 1d4 HD
Was 2d4 overpowered? Wouldn't have thought so...

Invisibility: 1min/level
Pretty short!

Scorching Ray: 4d6 and it scales! Wow, wouldn't wanna miss that one!

Darkness: I better skip that!

Thanks for input!

Bullstrength: Didn't think the change was warranted, now a spell I don't usually bother with.

Longstride: A good addition and the duration balances with effect vs Expeditious Retreat.

Sleep: Setting the effect to 4 hit dice cuts both ways, but the full round casting time was completely unwarranted.

Invisibility: Now pretty much a combat spell, since you still have to move silently to get full use out of it when scouting. The change makes Hide in Plain Sight a much better ability.

Scorching Ray: Definately a must have, which seems odd since one of the supposed reasons for changing the spells was to get rid of 'no brainer' choices.

Darkness: Used to think it was a pretty stupid change, but it just occured to me how useful it could be for a Shadow Dancer...
Otherwise, yeah, you really have to wonder about that one...

 

[Plane Sailing]

Sleep: 1d4 HD
Was 2d4 overpowered? Wouldn't have thought so...

As Gnimish88 points out, the real killer here was making it a *full round casting time*. How the mighty have fallen, eh?

Back in 1e you could cast the spell and sleep 4d4 foes of up to 1HD (IIRC) with NO SAVING THROW!. Now you'll be lucky to complete the casting of the spell...

 

[Durifern]

As Gnimish88 points out, the real killer here was making it a *full round casting time*. [...]

Yeah, completely missed that one. Oh my...

That´s what I don´t like: a long list of house rules. :/

 

[Li Shenron]

Generally speaking, 3.5 spell good changes and bad changes quite balance themselves out. I would simply stick to one ruleset and allow PCs to get versions of spells from the other ruleset if they wish, but perhaps delay the acquisition of such spell.

 

[billd91]

Generally speaking, 3.5 spell good changes and bad changes quite balance themselves out. I would simply stick to one ruleset and allow PCs to get versions of spells from the other ruleset if they wish, but perhaps delay the acquisition of such spell.

I like many of the changes to 3.5, but some of the spell changes, including ones here, make me scratch my head and wonder if there was just too much feature creep in the release. There's a lot of micromanaging of these rules.

For the buff spells and sleep removing the variable effect, it renders the spell unchangeable by Empower spell since they are no longer variables. The buffs were particularly troubling considering they could also be Extended as well, leading to obnoxious buffing strategies that just couldn't be beat.

I'm definitely a supporter of the "if there's a dominating strategy in a game, it must be weeded out" philosophy of game design. If there's a must-have and use as often as possible strategy that always works, it's a problem because it's really no longer much of a game. And so I generally support the nerfing of the buff spells (though maybe 10min/level would be acceptible). But with the reduced HD limit on sleep, removing Empower-ability, and the relatively low Will save DC of a 1st level spell (compared to 1st and 2nd edition NO save), the spell is certainly not a no-brainer anymore even without a full round casting time. I'm really not sure I see much point to that.

There are other changes I don't understand either. Spider Climb now a 2nd level spell? Summon Nature's Ally including genies? And I don't really understand the duration change for invisibility. Ten minutes/level compared with ALL DAY for previous editions was probably a significant-enough correction. But 1 min/level? That may be a whole bunch of combat time at 10 rounds/minute, but if you are trying to send a low-level scout to check out the army encampment, it won't get him very far.

I dunno. Many spell changes like this just look to me like someone let the project get a bit too broadly defined. I've blindsided my players with some of the changes (and really blindsided myself too). I'm in the process of house-ruling some features back like the standard action casting time of sleep and the invisibility duration of 10 min/level.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

I'm sure it was all discussed to death but still.
What do you think of the changes of these spells in 3.5:

Bull's Strength etc.: 1 min/level
IMO that's OK...

Invisibility: 1min/level
Pretty short!
Thanks for input!

These remerber me a house rule that I want to test, makes the extend spell increses the duration like this: 1 round/level to 1 min/level, 1 min/level to 10 min/level, 10 min/level to 1 hour per level, 1 hour/level to 2 hours/level, any other duration to 2x the old duration. It would make the extend spell feat usefull...

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

I'm sure it was all discussed to death but still.
What do you think of the changes of these spells in 3.5:

Bull's Strength etc.: 1 min/level
IMO that's OK...

Longstride: 1h/level
A bit strong for a first level spell...

Sleep: up to 4 HD
Was 2d4 overpowered? Wouldn't have thought so...

Invisibility: 1min/level
Pretty short!

Scorching Ray: 4d6 and it scales! Wow, wouldn't wanna miss that one!

Darkness: I better skip that!

Bulls str and other buffing spells: are pretty much worthless at 1 min per level. the only way they could retain any possible use would be offer bonus type other than "enhancement" or scale them. +2 every 3 levels up to +10 at 15th.

Longstride: no problems here, its a druid/ranger/travel spell, and I would really like to see the druid fill the long-term buffer category.

sleep: don't know why it was changed, except maybe an empower problem but that was fixed by the 1 meta-magic type per spell. This is what happens when you have multiple groups attacking problems at differnt angles (like Bulls str). It gets nerf'd at both ends and becomes nearly worthless.

Scorching ray: I don't see the problem. short range, and requires an attack roll. 4d6 at 3-6, 8d6 at 7-10, 12d6 at 11+ (and only if you hit with the attack)

Darkness: its just like obscuring mist now, but apparently there was a great deal of confusion with double-blind combat, or double invisibilty... Its just too bad there isn't a true darkness spell that just elimiates prevailing light (allowing darkvision to work).

And one more.
Why can rogues only sneak attack in broad daylight?

Invisiblity: there was a change made only for the sake of change

 

[Otterscrubber]

Good question about rogues only sneak attacking in broad daylight, I thought they would be good at striking in the dark. As such this makes darkness good if you get jumped by a bunch of rogues in an alley, but not much use outside of that.

The only spell change problem I have is with Invisibility. Took a cool, useful spell and made it all but uselss. It's not that great for combat as it drops immediately if you attack and scouting generally takes a more than a few minutes to accomplish.