D&D 5E Spell -> Counterspell -> Counterspell (from same character that casts 1st spell) - possible?

[CapnZapp]

The hard to adjudicate bit (for me) is when you cast a bonus action spell on your turn, and that is counterspelled. Since you cast a bonus action spell, can you cast counterspell of your own?

Technically, I don't think you can. Which strikes me as a bit silly.

If you're referring to the general rule that says you can only cast a cantrip on the same turn where you cast a spell using a bonus action, you're right.

Counterspell isn't a cantrip, so you can't use your reaction to cast it on your own turn (to counterspell a counterspell).

You could still spend your reaction to cast Counterspell on *someone else's* turn, since that's not the turn when you used your bonus action to cast a spell.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[CapnZapp]

It is a great way of eating through spell slots, if nothing else.

Remember, it's impossible to actually counter a spell with counterspell, because if you are in range to counter them then they are necessarily in range to counter you. Instead, the point of counterspell is to make them waste their reaction, so they can't use shield that round.

I think you mean "it's impossible to counterspell without being open to a counter-counterspell"

It's certainly not impossible to actually counter a spell. For one thing, your opponent might not choose to counter your counterspell...

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[CapnZapp]

I can't imagine anyone getting to fifth level and then making such a rookie mistake. Maybe if it's a new player, and they don't know how the world works yet, but the character really should know better.

Lots of NPCs don't have counterspell the spell.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[CapnZapp]

Oh, excellent point! Well said.

I have a more basic question: can a reaction spell even be cast as an action?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using EN World mobile app

No

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[CapnZapp]

If you don't have it, then it's incredibly useful for your opponent, because then they can counter your spell. It's a spell that's absolutely mandatory in you want your own spells to go through (barring some other gimmick, like subtlety or invisibility). If everyone has it, then it simply operates as a tax on spell slots. If any side doesn't have it, then they're at a massive disadvantage against any side that does.

It's also worth noting that, if the PCs are the ones storming the dungeon, then they're much more likely to be pressed for resources than the defenders who won't be facing any other encounters that day. The spell slot tax is much harsher to the PCs than to the NPCs, in practice.

Which is an EXCELLENT reason for not giving it to all your NPCs! ☺

And it just so happens that not all official NPC stat blocks have Counterspell... So this is only a problem if you make it one.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I have seen this in Tier 2.
Npc Fireball
PC 1 Counterspell
Npc Counterspell (haa)
PC 2 Counterspell the counterspell.
It totally weird but it legal.

The chain keeps going as long as there are spellcasters with reactions available. If there was a second NPC spellcaster, they could counter the counterspell from PC2, allowing the original fireball to go through. Again, this usually works out in favor of the NPCs, who aren't going to have any other encounters today.

It happened in my game when the party faced their evil clones. Of course, the evil clone fighters capitalized on the wizard having spent its reaction by focusing fire while it couldn't shield.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It is a great way of eating through spell slots, if nothing else.

Remember, it's impossible to actually counter a spell with counterspell, because if you are in range to counter them then they are necessarily in range to counter you. Instead, the point of counterspell is to make them waste their reaction, so they can't use shield that round.

"Impossible" is an overstatement.

(1) They may have already used their reaction this round (e.g. on Shield or a previous Counterspell).
(2) They may not know Counterspell. (Esp. clerics, druids, bards, Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters, paladins, and rangers.)
(3) They may not have enough spell points/slots left to Counterspell. (Esp. warlocks, paladins, rangers, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters.)
(4) You may have a longer range on your Counterspell than they do (Distant Spell metamagic).
(5) You may not qualify to be Counterspelled by them (if they cannot see you, e.g. Fog Cloud or Greater Invisibility).
(6) You may be Counterspelling with a higher-level spell slot than they are using to Counterspell your Counterspell, so their Counterspell may fail.
(7) One of your allies may Counterspell their Counterspell of your Counterspell.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

"Impossible" is an overstatement.

(1) They may have already used their reaction this round (e.g. on Shield or a previous Counterspell).
(2) They may not know Counterspell. (Esp. clerics, druids, bards, Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters, paladins, and rangers.)
(3) They may not have enough spell points/slots left to Counterspell. (Esp. warlocks, paladins, rangers, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters.)
(4) You may have a longer range on your Counterspell than they do (Distant Spell metamagic).
(5) You may not qualify to be Counterspelled by them (if they cannot see you, e.g. Fog Cloud or Greater Invisibility).
(6) You may be Counterspelling with a higher-level spell slot than they are using to Counterspell your Counterspell, so their Counterspell may fail.
(7) One of your allies may Counterspell their Counterspell of your Counterspell.

It's a minor exaggeration for comic effect, but it remains true in a surprisingly large number of situations. The reaction limitation is a significant one, but it's unlikely that they'll run out of spell slots before you do since they'll be going all-out and you need to get through six encounters in a day.

In many situations, if you're facing a divine or secondary caster who lacks access to Counterspell, they may simply refrain from casting while within sight of the wizard. There's no point in them even trying to cast a big spell, if the obvious expectation is that the wizard will counter it. Of course, they may cast a spell with the explicit intent of causing the wizard to counter it in order to prevent the wizard from using Shield that round, but I would hardly call that a success on the part of the wizard.

 

[UnknownDyson]

The answer is no. http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/02/04/counterspell-vs-counterspell/

 

[Yunru]

The answer is no. http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/02/04/counterspell-vs-counterspell/

That answer is wrong.