Spell Focus? Is it worth it?

[the Jester]

Conjuration and Abjuration spells don't often give saving throws. Anyone ever taken Spell Focus (Divination)?

Actually, a pc cleric in my campaign recently took spell focus abjuration for things like dismissal and stuff.

And I just made an npc wizard with focus in divination; he's kind of a sage for hire.

 

[Voadam]

Spell Focus divination is also a prereq for some feats in the quintessential wizard (as is SF enchantment)

 

[Shard O'Glase]

It has a good in game effect. I just never would take it except maybe for a specialist. The reason why, I like feats that do something more tangible, like let me craft items, or make my spells last all day. While a +2-6 to the dc has a nice solid in game combat effect it just doesn't fint my idea of fun becuase it just doesn't seem to do anything.

Also how useful it is depends highly on your dms style. If he lets the dice rule the saves in encounters then it is powerful, if he only lets suckers fail there saves then it sucks as a feat.

 

[Chimera]

Heck yes, good feat(s). Anything to raise the DC and make your spells more effective. Don't just look at the lower level spells, consider it as a long-term investment. A low level Transmuter might be only looking at buffing spells, but wouldn't you be interested in an additional 10-20% chance that your Polymorph Other spell would work once you've reached 7th level?

Heck, in the D&D tournament last year, I got the bad guy by turning him into a lamb. (There was this whole Sheep fixation thing going...you had to be there.)

And don't look at the 'Save or Half Damage' as being "just as good" because you're still doing damage. There are characters and creatures who are going to take NO damage on a save. Me, I want them to fail that save, so the higher DC makes it very appealing.

 

[Gwarthkam]

...Or not. Both ways are correct.

but they are not equally relevant regarding the issue at hand.

It would also be "correct" to say that it's an 0.7% increase in "at least 1 succes out of 3" when you go from needing 17 to needing 19. But those 0.7% somehow doesn't feel relevant.

I would accept it if it was stated as a 10 percentage point increase in succes-probability, not just "10%"

Arguing that "spell focus is exactly a 10% increase" isn't a valid statement, it fails to describe what is being measured.

I didn't say that what he was doing wasn't "correct" I just told him what to do instead in the future

 

[bensei]

Arguing that "spell focus is exactly a 10% increase" isn't a valid statement, it fails to describe what is being measured.

As Nail said, it is a valid statement (taking the special case of 20 roll away) - it is just that the number 10 is not an appropriate measure for the increase in usefulness.
The increase in usefulness depends on the subject of the spell, since against one mighty opponent the 10% do not make such a big difference compared to the case of one (or more) weak opponents (in terms of save boni).

So the statement that the prob. of failing is increased by 10% is always correct (besides 20-rule) - although it may give a wrong impression - while the statement that spell focus doubles, triples, or whatever-les your chances is not true for mighty opponents.

But neverthess it is still useful, of course...

 

[Gwarthkam]

As Nail said, it is a valid statement (taking the special case of 20 roll away) - it is just that the number 10 is not an appropriate measure for the increase in usefulness.
The increase in usefulness depends on the subject of the spell, since against one mighty opponent the 10% do not make such a big difference compared to the case of one (or more) weak opponents (in terms of save boni).

So the statement that the prob. of failing is increased by 10% is always correct (besides 20-rule) - although it may give a wrong impression - while the statement that spell focus doubles, triples, or whatever-les your chances is not true for mighty opponents.

But neverthess it is still useful, of course...

Ok, this argument is not that important, I think the original poster get the idea but:

that "prob. of failing is increased by 10%" is actually never the case, not "always" as shown below (1 and 20 avoided)

(the numbers to the left are the result needed to make the save before and (->) after spell focus)

2->4 from 5% to 15% i.e. a 200.0% increase in probability of failing
3->5 from 10% to 20% i.e. a 100.0% increase in probability of failing
4->6 from 15% to 25% i.e. a 66.7% increase in probability of failing
5->7 from 20% to 30% i.e. a 50.0% increase in probability of failing
6->8 from 25% to 35% i.e. a 40.0% increase in probability of failing
7->9 from 30% to 40% i.e. a 33.3% increase in probability of failing
8->10 from 35% to 45% i.e. a 28.6% increase in probability of failing
9->11 from 40% to 50% i.e. a 25.0% increase in probability of failing
10->12 from 45% to 55% i.e. a 22.2% increase in probability of failing
11->13 from 50% to 60% i.e. a 20,0% increase in probability of failing
12->14 from 55% to 65% i.e. a 18.2% increase in probability of failing
13->15 from 60% to 70% i.e. a 16.7% increase in probability of failing
14->16 from 65% to 75% i.e. a 15.4% increase in probability of failing
15->17 from 70% to 80% i.e. a 14.3% increase in probability of failing
16->18 from 75% to 85% i.e. a 13.3% increase in probability of failing
17->19 from 80% to 90% i.e. a 12.5% increase in probability of failing

 

[Methos]

Enchantment it is!!

Ok. After spending an exhaustive amount of time over the past few days reviewing spells mostly in the PHB since my DM effectively considers all of these spells "common" with a few exceptions, and all other spells from other sources as "forgotten" so they have to be researched, I will take enchantment spell focus.

This, I think, will be the most effective for me over the long term and I will probably take greater spell focus too. The ability to raise the DC by 20% is too tempting, even if boring. Juicy feats like metamagic feats and item creation feats will be fewer, but I may have a more effective spell caster over the long term especially for those pesky fighters who will be failing their will saves, heh!!!

Cheers

Methos