D&D 3.x Spell/Rule Changes from 3.0 to 3.5 -- How did we survive 3.0?
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two
First Post
Or you could use this example:
Either I honestly don't understand the meaning of the term "cost," in which case it's miraculous I managed a Ph.D, or this is simply a bit of empty rhetoric generated by, an Nail puts it, "abstract[ing] people's comments to the point of absurdity."
Storm Raven said:
Either I honestly don't understand the meaning of the term "cost," in which case it's miraculous I managed a Ph.D, or this is simply a bit of empty rhetoric generated by, an Nail puts it, "abstract[ing] people's comments to the point of absurdity."
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Seven pages and everyone is still being nice to one another... more or less.
Please let's keep it civil and avoid the temptation to pick on one another. There is plenty of good discussion without anyone getting personal or retaliating.
Thanks
Plane Sailing (moderator)
Please let's keep it civil and avoid the temptation to pick on one another. There is plenty of good discussion without anyone getting personal or retaliating.
Thanks
Plane Sailing (moderator)
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
two said:
Well, is it a Ph.D. in Economics?
Nail
First Post
Right. Civil it will be, sir-rah!Plane Sailing said:
Back OT: I'm beginning to think that stacking Improved Crit. and the Keen weapon enhancement ain't so bad. All of my number crunching shows that. Even with Power Attack. (Adding favored enemy bonuses and the like can make it obsene, however.)
...And yet, I seem to remember several threads on ENWorld about how stacking crit ranges (in 3.0e) was so easy and an Uber-tactic. Was this just in relation to several prestige classes now expunged or fixed for 3.5e? <memory failure: please reboot> Anyone?
On another note: Could someone spell out for me why the "animal buff" spells would be "real 2nd level spells" if their durations were 10 min/lvl? Surely once we reach that level of duration they become (with a Rod of Extend Spell or the like) a nearly "always on" spell?
As I see it, both 1 min/lvl and 10 min/lvl duration both imply that you know "combat's about to start". Are most of you impying the spell is only good if you can use it for 2 combats? Or are you saying the spells are only worth it if they can be on for most of the day?
OTOH: How about this idea:
Compare 2 magic items. One is Gloves of Dexterity +4, and one is a set of Gloves that has a continuous Cat's Grace.
Gloves of Dexerity +4 --> Market Price = 16,000 gp
Gloves of Cat's Grace --> Market Price = 24,000gp
{For the second item, the formula for the cost is:
2(spell level) * 3(caster level) * 2000gp(continuous) * 2(spell duration in minutes)}
If the Cat's Grace spell had a duration of 10 min/lvl (instead of 1 minute/level), then the cost would be (12,000gp x 1.5) 18,000gp.
Huh.
Last edited:
Victim
First Post
Nail said:
Ten minute per level spells can last around an hour or two at mid-high caster levels. So a group can use them in a situation where risk of violence is present, but not immediate. For example, a group can use them effectively when entering a dungeon complex, exploring the sewers, right before a party - both for the social benefits of Eagle's Splendor and for combat buffs once the inevitable attack occurs. On the other hand, they wouldn't last all day.
On the other hand, at one minute per level, they last for one fight, and maybe a second if the party rushes at most levels. Outside of combat, the spells are much worse. A 20th level wizard casting Eagle's Splendor on someone wouldn't get them through a job interview, much less allow for an inspiring speach at the beginning of some epic battle and a rally at the end. Not that battles would be all that epic with a 20th level wizard around though.
Regarding crit stacking, just because people say something is uber doesn't mean it is. I remember reading that after S&F came out, the various normal types of fighters would be eclipsed by the overpowering "Path" of Monkey Gripping 2 Mercurial Greatswords. I don't think the math from this thread has shown an all around advantage for Keen+Improved Crit weapons.
However, there were other issues with 3.0 criticals. The weapon master PrC added 2 to a weapon's threat range, stacking with Keen and such. So you could have 16-20 scythes, or 10-20 falchions. Also, Vorpal worked off the entire threat range of the weapon.
Nail
First Post
A rod of Extend Spell (lesser) has a market price of 3000gp. It's a good choice for casters in the mid-levels.Victim said:
An extended Bear's Endurance cast by a 8th level caster will last 16 minutes.
Increase the duration to 10 min/lvl, and that becomes 160 minutes, or 2 hrs 40 min. Significant (if not terrible).
My PC (Clr 12) has such a rod, and commonly extends spells with 10 min/lvl durations (splat book 2nd lvl spells, mostly) for 240 min -> 4 hours. It's surprising how many splatbooks think that 10 min/lvl is a good duration for low level buffs.
And, after 4 hours, we're usually ready to leave the dungeon for a day.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Sword and fist also had the stupid bladed gauntlets (for wolverine wannabees) which had a threat range of 17-20 - so with keen and improved crit and weaponsmaster +2 bonus they could end up with threatening a crit on 6-20. Someone created a theoretical "Mr Ginsu" who with great cleave could potentially take down 6 3.0e solars in one round with his keen vorpal bladed gauntlets. Allegedly.
