Spellbook Loophole

[Sadrik]

I'm sorry, I still don't get this. The fact that it costs 100 GP per page to scribe the spells, doesn't make the spellbook worth 100 GP per page.

I agree that it doesnt make sense. However, what they have printed says I dont care if these 0 level spells are really of any value to a wizard they are still worth 100gp each.

After all, another wizard can't prepare the spells from that spellbook--she needs to first scribe them into her spellbook. At 100 GP per page ... That makes a page of a zero-level spell value to another wizard equal, at most, the value of a scroll of a zero-level spell, 12.5 GP, and probably less. (Since the scroll could also be used to cast the spell once.)

Wizards can not use other wizards spell book. Actually only the spells that a wizard has in their spellbook. The weird part of that rule is what if a wizard loses their spellbook? They cannot use any spells from any other books then. But if you have a spell book then you can use spells that are in your spellbook from other spellbooks. So ownership is the most important consideration... weird.

Also, if scroll is put into a spellbook the information vanishes from the page. So never scribe your high material component cost spells into your spellbook.

They people you want to rob are the ones selling the ink & materials to the wizards. Those guys are the ones with the tens of thousands of GP worth of stuff, and with a market of rich wizards waiting to buy it. Although, those wizards may not be happy to do business with the guy that gacked their regular supplier & took his stuff, now that I think about it, so this may not be a very good long-term career choice.

How appropriate!

Sadrik

 

[frankthedm]

There are at least 38 0 level spells. A first level wizard gets all zero level spells. He also gets 5 +int in 1st level spells. Assuming a 14 int. A first level wizard has used up 45 pages of his spell book. Each page is worth 100gp. That means that a first level wizard has the equivilant of 4,500gp in his backpack.

I have considered using this loophole to buy a first level magic item and just taking the wizard at first level for the extra gold and then going into the class I really want to take.

Has anyone utilized this loophole before?

Sadrik

What loophole?

There are 19 spells on the sorcerer wizard list in the core books. If the DM actually follows the ludicrous suggestion of just adding all spell compendium spells to each classes spell list, the game will have more pressing balance issues than a PC having 2250gp in his back pocket by gimping himself. By the same rules that supply the loophole, the book sell for 1/2 value.

That is not even enough for one +1 weapon. That is 3 1st level wands, assuming those extra non core 0th’s. Core, a wizard nets 1100gp trying this trick.

 

[irdeggman]

The starting spells in a wizards spell book don't cost him anything at all.

Materials and Costs: Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page.
Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level.

So the "value" of the 0-level spells is exactly "0 gp" since a wizard's spellbook is only of "value" to another wizard and they automatically have all the 0-level spells themselves.


Also you have calculated the "value" incorrectly.

From the SRD:

Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for a gp amount equal to one-half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within (that is, one-half of 100 gp per page of spells). A spellbook entirely filled with spells (that is, with one hundred pages of spells inscribed in it) is worth 5,000 gp.

Besides using this "loophole" is jsut wrong since you end up wiping out a class feature and thus render the class ineffective by so doing.

A wizard's starting spellbook in game balance terms is worth the equivalent of the starting feats (including proficiencies) of the fighter. Or the ability to cast spells without a spellbook (cleric, druid, sorcerer, bard), etc.

 

[irdeggman]

Wizards can not use other wizards spell book. Actually only the spells that a wizard has in their spellbook. The weird part of that rule is what if a wizard loses their spellbook? They cannot use any spells from any other books then. But if you have a spell book then you can use spells that are in your spellbook from other spellbooks. So ownership is the most important consideration... weird.

Actually they can. It requires some spellcraft checks first though.

Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell she already knows and has recorded in her own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured. First, the wizard must decipher the writing in the book (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Once a spell from another spellcaster’s book is deciphered, the reader must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level) to prepare the spell. If the check succeeds, the wizard can prepare the spell. She must repeat the check to prepare the spell again, no matter how many times she has prepared it before. If the check fails, she cannot try to prepare the spell from the same source again until the next day. (However, as explained above, she does not need to repeat a check to decipher the writing.)

pg 140 of Complete Arcane has rules for mastering a foreign spellbook. Spellcraft check DC 25 + the level of the highest level spell contained within the book with a time of 1 week + 1 day per spell contained within. If successful the wizard can use the speelbook as his own.

 

[Thanee]

Mastering a foreign spellbook is a rule, that was (and still is) totally missing in the core rules.

It's a good thing, that the FR books introduced that rule (and that it got reprinted in CA, too).


Besides, the scribing costs are way too high, anyways. There is absolutely no need for such a high cost, not from any logical viewpoint (in fact, from a logical viewpoint the cost is completely ridiculous), neither from balance considerations.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sadrik]

Mastering a foreign spellbook is a rule, that was (and still is) totally missing in the core rules.

It's a good thing, that the FR books introduced that rule (and that it got reprinted in CA, too).

Ah, there is a rule like that, I didnt realize! That makes a lot more sense. I am playing a wizardy character in our current Ebberon game and I was thinking that I would have to spend a lot of money to get a spellbook transfered over into my spellbook.

However, that rule does make this case stronger. If you are not required to transfer the spellbook over then the value of a cantrip does actually have some value. For instance it would be useful to an apprentise wizard who can just learn to use the spell book (or better yet to the apprentises master who has to foot the bill for his spellbook). Where as before the spells would have been no use because they would have to have transfered the spells to their own book for 100gp per page (per cantrip).

I think the answer to this is simply to say a certain number of cantrips can be placed on a page. I think 10 cantrips per page makes the math simple and lowers their value to a more balanced value.

Ash

 

[Sadrik]

Besides, the scribing costs are way too high, anyways. There is absolutely no need for such a high cost, not from any logical viewpoint (in fact, from a logical viewpoint the cost is completely ridiculous), neither from balance considerations.

I agree, I was thinking about lower the costs as a house rule. What value do you thinkis more balanced 50? 10?

Sadrik

 

[Thanee]

10 gp/page is more than enough. We are using this cost since the early 3E days and never had a problem with it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[pawsplay]

And Wizards get ALL cantrips.

In my games, wizards' spellbooks don't arbitrary grow larger every time WotC publishes something. They start with all the 0-level PHB spells, plus what I allow, which is generally nothing, although they are free to seek those spells out.

 

[Glyfair]

Wizards can not use other wizards spell book.

Yes they can. There are rules for using a "borrowed spellbook." You just have to make a spellcraft check (and it has to be a spell scribed in your spellbook).

Also, Complete Arcane has rules for "attuning" another person's spellbook. It's very difficult, though (for any halfway decent book you need close to a month and a high 20 DC spellcraft check).