Spellbook Loophole

[Thanee]

And it wont get crazy out of hand as WoTC publish more books?

Don't get me wrong, but this does sound a little silly in the context of cantrips.

You could just limit them to the PHB cantrips only. Wow, that was easy.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Then scribing costs are 10gp per page and Value is 10 per page.

As said above, scribing cost and value are not the same.

The value of a book should not be calculated by the cost to write down the spells, but by the cost to obtain the knowledge contained within (maybe plus the cost to write it down).

It costs (per PHB rule) about 50 gp per spell level to gain the knowledge of a spell. That should be your base to figure out spellbook value.

Obtaining 0-level spells is free, so there is no real value in them.


I think you are way overcomplicating things.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sadrik]

As said above, scribing cost and value are not the same.

The value of a book should not be calculated by the cost to write down the spells, but by the cost to obtain the knowledge contained within (maybe plus the cost to write it down).

It costs (per PHB rule) about 50 gp per spell level to gain the knowledge of a spell. That should be your base to figure out spellbook value.

Obtaining 0-level spells is free, so there is no real value in them.


I think you are way overcomplicating things.

I am not offended by your remarks but I think that you are adding your own interpretation and that interpretation is not correct. It says at the bottom of the first column on page 179 of the PHB that spellbooks are valued by the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within. (I wont go into the purchase and inscribe part) Then as normal, you halve that value for selling it. So, point being the correlation between inscribing costs and how much per page is there. You have been playing with a 10gp/page inscribe cost since the early days of 3.0. So I can understand why you have divorced the relationship between inscribing costs and overall cost of the spellbook.

So, it still stands that by using the rules as written, cantrips are far too expensive value wise. They are equal to first level spells in value.

 

[ElectricDragon]

The stated value of spellbooks in the PHB is 1/2 the cost of scribing the spells into the spellbook.
From the SRD:

Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for a gp amount equal to one-half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within (that is, one-half of 100 gp per page of spells). A spellbook entirely filled with spells (that is, with one hundred pages of spells inscribed in it) is worth 5,000 gp.

Interestingly this does not include the original cost of the empty spell book (15 gp).
Also, making copies of your spellbooks also costs less in time and money than the originals.
From the SRD:

Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook.
Time: The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level...
A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above)...
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.

Emphasis mine.

So for copies of spellbooks, cost and value are the same; while for original spellbooks, cost is twice the value.

I like Thanee's house rule of 10 gp/page. It makes much more sense; I think I'll yoink it for my campaign. Keeping the 1/2 value rule would make a full spellbook worth 500 gp. It would also mean 2nd level wizards would not have to spend most of their ill-gotten gains just to put a few scrolls into their spellbook. I would leave copies at the same cost as originals, though; yet, still give the decrease in time.

Wait, Thanee, you say value should be cost to obtain plus (maybe) cost to scribe? So, a spellbook should be worth, say scroll value plus scribe value? How about, instead: 1/2 scroll market value plus 1/2 scribe cost = value (of course this overly complicates finding value for a found spell book).
With this system spells would be worth the following set amounts in a spell book:
1st: 10 gp
2nd: 40 gp
3rd: 90 gp
4th: 160 gp
5th: 250 gp
6th: 360 gp
7th: 490 gp
8th: 640 gp
9th: 810 gp
This does not include the scroll's increase in price for expensive material or focus components nor for xp costs. Note that this is essentially spell level squared times 10 for each spell level.


Ciao
Dave

 

[Thanee]

Well, I would calculate the value that way, at least.

Basically 60 gp/lvl (50 gp/lvl to get access to the spell and 10 gp/lvl to scribe it), disregarding 0-lvl spells (or at absolute most, count them half as much as 1st-lvl) and adding in the base cost of the spellbook, of course.

And yes, you would get 50% of the total, if you were to sell the book.

So, it still stands that by using the rules as written, cantrips are far too expensive value wise.

I agree with that, and even moreso, the whole scribing rules are totally whacky.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nonlethal Force]

As to the original question, I'd go with the first piece of advice.

Since every OTHER wizard also gets his spellbook full of 0th level spells for free, I have a hard time thinking you'll have much market for selling yours.

I really think this is a case where common sense should take over the rules. If in the OP's gameworld every wizard gets every cantrip ... then what value is there to that book? Anyone that can use it already knows everything contained! It'd be like going to a library and checking out "How to breath 101." I just don't see the demand.

Still - as a DM, I'd likely allow this to happen for several reasons:

1. Without a spellbook a wizard level is going to be rather useless except in being able to use magic items like wands. If the player ever wanted to get another spellbook, you'd better believe as a DM I'd make him pay to scribe all the cantrips he earlier wanted to sell. So if his wizard levels ever were to come back into play, the economic issue would be fairly balanced.

2. There are only a few classes that are strong enough to absorb a level of spell-less wizard without being really weak at level 2. Chances are the character would have a good chance of dying, anyway - unless his party saved his butt. But if that's the case, he better be sharing some of that money around, too!

3. The advantage is only going to get the character so far because in my campaigns I take a serious look at average party wealth when generating adventures. So the earned treasure would be rather thin until the party caught up to this player. I think peer pressure would get rather annoying after a while. So by the time the party caught up to this character in wealth ... there'd be a good set of characters built for strength and another character almost perfect but with 1 obvious flaw.

But in general, I'd expect my players to not try this out.

 

[Sadrik]

The stated value of spellbooks in the PHB is 1/2 the cost of scribing the spells into the spellbook.
From the SRD:
Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for a gp amount equal to one-half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within (that is, one-half of 100 gp per page of spells). A spellbook entirely filled with spells (that is, with one hundred pages of spells inscribed in it) is worth 5,000 gp.

Yes and wouldnt you agree this follows the same patern that say a +1 sword is worth 2,000 and you sell it for 1,000. Again, the spell book is worth 10,000 and you can sell it for 5,000 as usual for selling items in the d&d world of mercantilism. It is not 5,000 sell it for 2,500.


I think a per page thing is the best approach for spell book value. Giving different value for each spell in the book- is not right- much too complex.

I am going to use this:
Each spell takes up 1 plus the spell level in pages.
It will cost 10gp/page to scribe a spell.
The overall spellbook will be valued at 10gp/page. (A full spellbook will have a 1,000gp value and sell for 500gp. ) (Also in essence, 0 level spells are valued at 10gp, 1st level at 20 etc. all the way down to 9th which are valued at 100gp.)

Those values seem a little cheap. Thanee, You like 50gp per page?

At 50gp per page a full spell book would be 5,000gp --> that seems doable.

So lets see a first level wizard would have (as the book) 3 + int 1st level spells and all cantrips.
Under 1+ spell level for each page would be --> 28 pages for 0 level and 10 pages for first would be 38 pages or 1,700gp spellbook. Zykes! That still seems a bit high.

I think the problem is that low level spells seem to be worth too much and high level spells seem to be worth not enough.

How about changing the page count to be double the spell level or 1. So an 9th level spell eats up 18 pages and 0 eats 1 and a 1st eats 2 a 3rd eats 6 etc.

Then change the per page value down to 25gp or even 20gp (for simple math reasons). So a 38 page spellbook would be worth 760gp. That seems a lot more like it.

I agree with that, and even moreso, the whole scribing rules are totally whacky.

On the bright side, at least it is better than second edition. spell level+1d6 for each of your spells. Let me tell you it took a lot of time to manage your myriad of spell books!

 

[pawsplay]

Speaking as a former used car owner... just because you spend so much money on something does not mean it's worth even what you put into it.

Standard level 0 spells are worth next to nothing. The rest, you might be able to sell for half price, like any other item. That's assuming you know a good place to fence a spellbook, if it's not yours.

 

[Question]

9th level spells should be worth much more than just 50 gp per page they used........especially if its a rare spell.