Spellless paladins and rangers. Bonus feats worth giving up spellcasting?

[Greg K]

(note: I intended to have a poll, but it didn't come up
Creating spellless paladins and rangers by giving up spells for bonus feats whenever a new spell level would be gained has been unofficially since 3.0. Now, it is an official option with the release of Complete Champion.

Personally, I like the option(s). I can see using it for certain settings either as a replacement for the standard paladin and ranger or along side them. However, over at the WOTC boards, a few people have come out and said that 4 bonus feats is not worth giving up spellcasting for either paladins or rangers. x. So, I figured I would get opinions here.

So, is four bonus feats ever worth giving up spellcasting for paladins and rangers?

A. Its worth it only if the paladin and ranger has access to core spells only.
B. It's worth it dependent upon the supplements in use.
C. It's never worth giving up spellcasting.
D. Other- please state

 

[Mark CMG]

Probably not worth it for players, particularly if there are more than just the core rules in use but as a DM I like it. I prefer that there be more non-spellcasting classes than spellcasting classes.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I think that alternates of both paladins and rangers can be made to be completely competitive by substituting feat acquisition for spells.

Lots of people have tried making spell-free paladins and spell-free rangers. There are probably all kinds of existing examples you can find if you look.

Dave

 

[charlesatan]

It might be worth giving up depending on what you roll for ability scores. I mean the Paladin needs a bunch of good stats as it is. Forgetting about Wisdom (or at least settling for a 10) in favor of Str, Con, and Cha is okay.

 

[JustKim]

With this option rangers have more feats than fighters until the highest levels. They don't need to meet the most demanding prerequisites for these feats, they have much better skills, and very nice abilities like favored enemy, evasion and hide in plain sight on top.

I think it's a little much in exchange for spending a standard action to cast spells that weren't particularly good 5 levels ago.

 

[smootrk]

The spells a Paladin gets are marginal at best, but having several feat slots to devote to 'paladin-ish' feats (call them sacred, divine, exalted, etc) would be helpful. I personally would go for that variant myself, as I am a player who enjoys the Paladin character type (but seldom ever gets the opportunity to bother with a spell because of other party members with much more ability).

 

[Wolfwood2]

So, is four bonus feats ever worth giving up spellcasting for paladins and rangers?

A. Its worth it only if the paladin and ranger has access to core spells only.
B. It's worth it dependent upon the supplements in use.
C. It's never worth giving up spellcasting.
D. Other- please state

Worth it if you're giving up core spells only.

If a paladin gets access to 'Spell Compendium', he's giving up lots of spells that are Swift Action or long duration and can't be cast by a cleric, meaning they're really worth casting all the time. It would take a lot to give up Rhino's Rush, One Mind, Righteous Fury, or Holy Sword (cast it on your lance, not your main weapon).

Rangers give up Hunter's Mercy, Swift Haste, Arrow Storm, and so on.

With Core Spells only, I can see adventuring days when your paladin and/or ranger doesn't bother casting all of his spell slots. With Spell Compendium, it'll be a matter of never having enough spell slots.

 

[Brimshack]

Whether or not its worth it for me depends on what I was trying to create. Sometimes I have an idea for a Ranger that just doesn't really seem appropriate for spells. Then it's better to have the feats.

 

[Klaus]

Complete Champion offers a variant to substitute a Paladin's spellcasting, which constitutes 4 bonus feats (iirc, at 4th, 8th, 11th and 16th levels) from a finite list.

 

[Voadam]

Both are nice options.

Being able to use cure light wound wands from 1st level is nice even if most ranger and paladin spell use is very minor.