Spells that could be improved / better designed

[Kryx]

I'd rather stoneskin work as it did in previous editions. It's also a thematic issue for me. I've even recall reading D&D novels in which stoneskin granted immunity for a number of hits.

Stoneskin gave DR 10/adamantine in Pathfinder. DR 10 is equivalent to resistance in 5e. If stoneskin gave resistance to non adamantine weapons would that scratch your itch?

I really don't think I'd like 5e if the level of the spell dictated how much damage it did.

Wut... Damage based spells either determine their damage from their level or their level from their desired damage.. That's not an invention that I am creating. I'm just "fixing" what I would consider bad math or purposeful ignoring of the math as they've stated they purposefully did for Fireball and Lightning Bolt.
Spells should be balanced against one another.

 

[RotGrub]

Stoneskin gave DR 10/adamantine in Pathfinder. DR 10 is equivalent to resistance in 5e. If stoneskin gave resistance to non adamantine weapons would that scratch your itch?

oh right, pathfinder... lol.. I'm thinking about 2e mostly which granted immunity. Of course, even with 10 resistance most dagger and arrow attacks will be negated completely. Since you're always taking damage in 5e it's just not the same thing at all.

Wut... Damage based spells either determine their damage from their level or their level from their desired damage.. That's not an invention that I am creating. I'm just "fixing" what I would consider bad math or purposeful ignoring of the math as they've stated they purposefully did for Fireball and Lightning Bolt.
Spells should be balanced against one another.

opps.... I meant that I wouldn't like it if level didn't dictate how much damage it did.

 

[Gadget]

I agree with most of the rest, except this.
If you can just remove environmental effects and hazards with a single second level spell they cease to have any impact after level five or six.

I don't know. That's kind of like saying that healing spells remove hit point attrition impact. It still costs a resource, and it still has to be spread over the whole party. I just think the cost of removing an exhaustion level is too high in the game. Coupled with that, there are a lot of optional rules out there that utilize the exhaustion levels in various ways (wound levels spring to mind), and this would be a nice way to interact with them.

Here's my update to Mordenkainen's Sword. It incorporates some of its utility from previous editions.

MORDENKAINEN’S SWORD (REWRITE) ...

I like it. I'm not sure about the balance, but it definitely adds weight to the spell. I especially like how it destroys & ignores the shield spell and is called out to attack ethereal and invisible opponents. I have added in the past that it cancels out a Wall of Force, but that ends the spell.

Weird and PK just need a slight damage boost and to have the damage go off on the first save as well.

Timestop is rated blue by treantmonk. It doesn't need any buffs.

Why doesn't it need any buffs? I admit, I haven't played using ninth level spells yet, what's so great about it, as written? I understand that stopping time is a cool, neato effect, but I'm not seeing how this is all that as a 9th level spell. I mean, you can fire off a couple of DBF (you only ever get two of these at level twenty), or throw up a Wall of Force (or some other wall spell), self buff, or put up an illusion. The problem is that most of these spells are concentration spells, even DBF, so you only ever get one at a time. Maybe there is some combination of spells/actions that are just awesome, but I'm not seeing it.

Maybe you could use the spell to get past the guardians and traps and get the McGuffin per Indiana Jones, but that is assuming you can do so in 12 to 30 seconds; and you won't know how much time you have until you cast it.

 

[Kryx]

Why doesn't it need any buffs? I admit, I haven't played using ninth level spells yet, what's so great about it, as written? I understand that stopping time is a cool, neato effect, but I'm not seeing how this is all that as a 9th level spell. I mean, you can fire off a couple of DBF (you only ever get two of these at level twenty), or throw up a Wall of Force (or some other wall spell), self buff, or put up an illusion. The problem is that most of these spells are concentration spells, even DBF, so you only ever get one at a time. Maybe there is some combination of spells/actions that are just awesome, but I'm not seeing it.

Maybe you could use the spell to get past the guardians and traps and get the McGuffin per Indiana Jones, but that is assuming you can do so in 12 to 30 seconds; and you won't know how much time you have until you cast it.

To quote treantmonk:
"Take 1d4+1 turns in a row, because taking 1 round at a time is for big stupid fighters. This period of time involves some restrictions, but self buffing makes a lot of sense during a time stop, as does creating walls or barriers, or raising illusions. I hear a lot about delayed blast fireball + time stop, but that’s always seemed pretty lame to me."

Time stop would allow the following:

• Time stop
• Stoneskin fighter or some other self buff like greater invis or fly. Alternatively you could wall off some enemies.
• Drink Potion / Activate a magic item
• Cast another big spell

Beyond that you can move every turn to reposition.

So effectively you can cast a buff and a normal spell on the same turn and then perhaps drink a potion or some other interaction. Casting a Spell and a Buff alone is worth it as that breaks action economy.

 

[CapnZapp]

Timestop is rated blue by treantmonk. It doesn't need any buffs.

That is because, in his mind, all he's gonna do while time is stopped is putting up walls.

A spell that allows you put up 1d4+1 walls is going to get rated blue by him. That guy loves walls. Wonder why he calls himself a god wizard. He's a wall wizard.

Myself, I'm not so sure. It still stings how nerfed the spell is. Although it probably needed it.

Still, if you don't particularly like playing passive, with your walls, illusions and what not, it's merely a self-buff or escape spell. And with the harsh limits on how much you can self-buff, I completely see how you would treat it as a potion-drinking spell (because that way, you circumvent concentration).

As such, it's not a 9th level spell, or even near it.

Basically, the spell forces you to put up walls. And I hate home improvement.

 

[CapnZapp]

There certainly are some spells that are grossly under-powered in 5e for their level. Stoneskin is one that comes to mind. IMO, it doesn't qualify as a 4th level spell anymore.

Stoneskin should not have the part of Concentration that makes damage break the spell, because that makes it useless as a self-buff - you have to cast it on others.

It should grant you one more recipient per extra level, so you could buff two people at level 5.

Finally, it should give resistance to all kinds of weapon damage, and not just non-magical weapon damage.

 

[CapnZapp]

bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing resistance is amazing and magic weapons are incredibly rare for monsters to have so I'm not seeing how it's a bad choice when compared to the other resistance spells

I think the take away is that resistance is generally weak. I think it is weak for a reason. Resistance slows down gameplay.

So I'm not really complaining. Much like Time Stop, the game needed the nerf, even if it means one less awesome level 9 spell.

Still, the duration isn't all that great. Yes, it saves slots, but it unfortunately also means "now I can't cast a concentration spell for a whole hour".

(The EE Absorb spell is fantastic, however - at higher levels - since you have so many 1st level slots)

3rd level feels like a stretch.

Agreed. I'd much rather the spell was slightly improved (see post above) and kept as a 4th level spell.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'd rather stoneskin work as it did in previous editions. It's also a thematic issue for me. I've even recall reading D&D novels in which stoneskin granted immunity for a number of hits.

Note:

By "previous editions" RotGrub means 2nd edition/AD&D.

 

[Kryx]

Basically, the spell forces you to put up walls. And I hate home improvement.

I outlined what it can do above, which is far more than put up walls. Walls is a pretty good usage, though.

I think the take away is that resistance is generally weak.

Resistance is one of the best ways of increasing durability. AC will prevent an attack 5 or 10% of the time equating to 10 or 20% more durability, but resistance is 50%+ more durability (round down makes it higher than 50 depending on the damage taken). It's amazing.

So I'm not really complaining. Much like Time Stop, the game needed the nerf, even if it means one less awesome level 9 spell.

The spell is nearly the exact same as Pathfinder except it is nonmagical instead of non adamantine. Perhaps you come from an older edition, but even in pathfinder it was a "A pretty solid defensive buff, but costs you 250 gp per casting. My suggestion is to avoid spells with costly material components."

Agreed. I'd much rather the spell was slightly improved (see post above) and kept as a 4th level spell.

Not a fan of the "this spell gets half of concentration" system. Allowing more creatures per level would be fine by me, but 1 every 2 would be far more balanced.

 

[RotGrub]

Stoneskin should not have the part of Concentration that makes damage break the spell, because that makes it useless as a self-buff - you have to cast it on others.

It should grant you one more recipient per extra level, so you could buff two people at level 5.

Finally, it should give resistance to all kinds of weapon damage, and not just non-magical weapon damage.

I totally agree. It got nerfed. Rename it to LeatherSkin and make it second level . It doesn't deserve to be a 4th level spell IMO.

I'd just fix it by using the 2e version. It's the best IMO

Stoneskin(Alteration) (4th level)
Range: Touch

Components: V, S, M

Duration: Special

Casting Time: 1

Area of Effect: 1 creature
Saving Throw: None

When this spell is cast, the affected creature gains a virtual immunity to any attack by cut, blow, projectile, or the like. Even a sword of sharpness cannot affect a creature protected by stoneskin, nor can a rock hurled by a giant, a snake's strike, etc. However, magical attacks from such spells as fireball, magic missile, lightning bolt, and so forth have their normal effects. The spell's effects are not cumulative with multiple castings.The spell blocks 1d4 attacks, plus one attack per two levels of experience the caster has achieved. This limit applies regardless of attack rolls and regardless of whether the attack was physical or magical. For example, a stoneskin spell cast by a 9th-level wizard would protect against from five to eight attacks. An attacking griffon would reduce the protection by three each round; four magic missiles would count as four attacks in addition to inflicting their normal damage.The material components of the spell are granite and diamond dust sprinkled on the recipient's skin.

btw, I do recall diamond dust being rather expensive too.