Spells that should be rituals or cantrips.

[variant]

From a legacy point of view I can see the importance of this. But I would like to see the thief or skill monkey the best lock picker - not the wizard. Maybe get knock to give an advantage to next attempt to open the door or comp languages a bonus to lore skill attempts.

Likewise detect and read magic are spells that step on the toes of skills in my view.

All in all, despite the legacy of spells in D&D I would like to see something different in the way DDN uses magic in conjunction will skills - so would like to see more interaction between the skill system and the magic system.

I disagree. It should be better than simply using a skill. The limitation is the fact you are using a spell slot. The thief/rogue class isn't based around being the skill monkey anyway. Skills come from primarily backgrounds.

 

[Li Shenron]

Rituals: how about just saying that any spell can work as a ritual (provided your character has the ability to do so), then standardize the costs so that all spells of the same level can be "ritualized" for the same gp cost and same casting time?

Cantrips: I am still undecided whether cantrips at will is a good or bad idea, so at the moment every suggestion to make one spell a cantrip does not meet my favour.

 

[thewok]

I'll agree with most of these, but isn't Bless a short duration effect? A few rounds at most.

Also, IIRC, Spectral Hand allows you to deal touch spells at range. Probably too good for a cantrip.

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As Kzach said, it'd make the wizard take two rounds to deliver a touch spell as a ranged attack. Couple that with a feat expenditure, and I think it's a fair tradeoff.

Regarding Bless: It's been a while since I've actually played 3rd edition, and we never really messed with Bless, as that was a precious healing spell slot (I'd memorize it, but I'd never really use it, as the guy getting chomped by the ankheg needed health more than a bonus to attacks). I was thinking it was a fairly long duration, like Mage Armor. However, checking the SRD, I am mistaken. The main point is I'd like to see pretty much every spell that's not an attack usable as a ritual, if the duration makes it feasible.

 

[Leatherhead]

Rituals: ...Knock

That's a bad idea.

If you are using Knock instead of simply bashing the lock apart, you are pressed for time and/or trying to be somewhat sneaky. Rituals do not lend themselves to either behavior.

 

[thewok]

That's a bad idea.

If you are using Knock instead of simply bashing the lock apart, you are pressed for time and/or trying to be somewhat sneaky. Rituals do not lend themselves to either behavior.

I fail to see the downside to offering it as a ritual. There may be a downside to using it, but mechanically, it should be an option. I know I wouldn't waste a spell slot on it. In a party without a rogue, destroying doors isn't always your best bet; you might want to reuse them later.

 

[JasonZZ]

Actually I could easily see Spectral Hand being a cantrip. Cast it once and it affects the next spell you cast only. Two turns to cast a ranged spell as a touch spell isn't something I'd have an issue with as a DM.

As a one-off, it would probably be fine. It was the original version with a duration that I had issues with.

 

[JasonZZ]

As Kzach said, it'd make the wizard take two rounds to deliver a touch spell as a ranged attack. Couple that with a feat expenditure, and I think it's a fair tradeoff.

Regarding Bless: It's been a while since I've actually played 3rd edition, and we never really messed with Bless, as that was a precious healing spell slot (I'd memorize it, but I'd never really use it, as the guy getting chomped by the ankheg needed health more than a bonus to attacks). I was thinking it was a fairly long duration, like Mage Armor. However, checking the SRD, I am mistaken. The main point is I'd like to see pretty much every spell that's not an attack usable as a ritual, if the duration makes it feasible.

As long as ritual use has a real cost to it, I would agree with this. Maybe there should even be ritual versions of the shorter-duration spells with longer durations and a higher cost.

 

[JasonZZ]

I fail to see the downside to offering it as a ritual. There may be a downside to using it, but mechanically, it should be an option. I know I wouldn't waste a spell slot on it. In a party without a rogue, destroying doors isn't always your best bet; you might want to reuse them later.

It would depend on the power of the Knock spell and/or the cost of using it as a ritual. Cheap ritual and old-school autosuccess? Sorry, rogue, you aren't needed any more. Higher price and/or not much (or even any) better than a rogue? I could see that much more.

 

[erf_beto]

I used 3e to DM a one-shot modern game, where all spells were "rituals", taking 1 round per level to cast. It worked great and everyone liked it (one shot, no need for balance ), so I'd like to see all spells with a ritual version. It would be thematically appropriate for some settings.

 

[thewok]

It would depend on the power of the Knock spell and/or the cost of using it as a ritual. Cheap ritual and old-school autosuccess? Sorry, rogue, you aren't needed any more. Higher price and/or not much (or even any) better than a rogue? I could see that much more.

If the rogue is the only class that can open locks, then I'm totally cool with making it a cheap ritual. If people can gain training with the Thievery skills without being a rogue (like in 4E), then I'd rather it just be a function of the skill, rather than magic.

I really, really hate Restricted skills.