Spells that use an XP-Cost as a component

[Voadam]

xp questions

Without referencing the DMG page referenced above (I will when I get home) I would think base creatures without having advanced by EHD or class would start with 0 xp just as a starting level 1 human or elf would. They can obviously gain xp as they can advance and it would not be improper to give a plot monster that chose the feat and met other prerequs some xp to craft an item even if he has not gained enough to advance an EHD or class level (perhaps because he makes so many items).


CRGreathouse:

For the starting ECL +3 bugbear Fighter level one I thought he would have zero xp but need to gain three thousand (the amount a third level character needs for his next level) to get to second level.

Am I mistaken? I thought it was not that the bugbear has the experience of a high level character but solely that he advances as a higher level character (for xp purposes) than he is to compensate for his monster bonuses. It would seem mistaken to say the 1st level fighter bugbear is more experienced than the 2nd level human fighter, but it would seem valid to say he is tougher.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: xp questions

CRGreathouse:

For the starting ECL +3 bugbear Fighter level one I thought he would have zero xp but need to gain three thousand (the amount a third level character needs for his next level) to get to second level.

Am I mistaken? I thought it was not that the bugbear has the experience of a high level character but solely that he advances as a higher level character (for xp purposes) than he is to compensate for his monster bonuses. It would seem mistaken to say the 1st level fighter bugbear is more experienced than the 2nd level human fighter, but it would seem valid to say he is tougher.

Now THAT'S a GOOD argument! Kind of makes sense also, doesn't it everybody? Nevertheless, when you play a genasi, you need 3000 XP to get to level 2 because you already started off with 1,000 XP. The latest article in Dragon about Genasi characters had a really good sidebar about that.

Wait a sec. Does that mean you need to figure out the ECL of the dragon before you can find out how much XP they start out with?

 

[CRGreathouse]

Re: xp questions

.

 

[kreynolds]

The Bugbear's ECL was changed from a +3 to a +4 in the FRCS Errata. I'm looking at it now.

 

[CRGreathouse]

The Bugbear's ECL was changed from a +3 to a +4 in the FRCS Errata. I'm looking at it now.

Cool. I'll take your word for it... too lazy to look it up myself.

 

[Caliban]

Re: xp questions

Without referencing the DMG page referenced above (I will when I get home) I would think base creatures without having advanced by EHD or class would start with 0 xp just as a starting level 1 human or elf would. They can obviously gain xp as they can advance and it would not be improper to give a plot monster that chose the feat and met other prerequs some xp to craft an item even if he has not gained enough to advance an EHD or class level (perhaps because he makes so many items).


CRGreathouse:

For the starting ECL +3 bugbear Fighter level one I thought he would have zero xp but need to gain three thousand (the amount a third level character needs for his next level) to get to second level.

Am I mistaken? I thought it was not that the bugbear has the experience of a high level character but solely that he advances as a higher level character (for xp purposes) than he is to compensate for his monster bonuses. It would seem mistaken to say the 1st level fighter bugbear is more experienced than the 2nd level human fighter, but it would seem valid to say he is tougher.

The FRCS talks about this a bit in the section about ECL's.

If the rest of the PC's are around 4th level, and you start a new character that is ECL +3 with a one level of a PC class, he is Character Level 4 and has the minimum XP required for Character level 4. His gains his next character/class level when everyone else hits character level 5.

They also give the option of starting an ECL+ character with a group of 1st level characters, but he would start with 0 XP just like everyone else. If it was an ECL+3 race, he would be Character Level 4, with 0 XP. He wouldn't gain his next character/class level until everyone else had gained character level 5.

 

[kreynolds]

Exactly. Greathouse, kind of looks like the only way to know how much XP a monster has is to figure up his ECL. Thanks to Dragon Magazine, they give a lot of ECL's.

Monster XP apparently isn't figured up the same way as a player. Take a look at this: A bugbear has 3 hit die (does not equate to how much XP he has), it has a challenge rating of 2 (which also does not equate to how much XP he has), and an ECL of +4 (now THAT tells you how much XP he has).

So, a classless bugbear has 10,000 XP. Make sense to anybody else?

 

[kreynolds]

I think we figured it out guys. Take a look at this.

According to Dragon Magazine, a young adult dragon has an ECL +20. It also has a +4 ECL modifier for being a Red dragon. So, a young adult red dragon has an ECL +24, which means he has 299,000 XP (the exact amount a 24 level character would have).

 

[Al]

Fiends Forgotten

Ah...but what of fiends.

Taking the Pit Fiend (or was it the Balor) that can cast Wish 1/year.

Presumably they must have the XP to cast it, and presumably if they couldn't cast it it would be pointless to say that they could cast it if they couldn't. Now, they neither have class levels nor easy advancement tables (like dragons). So do we just throw the towel in and say: yes, they can cast it once per year with no cost in XP.

And once you have that, try solars. They can cast XP using spells once or more times per day.

Sorry to create more questions rather than provide answers.

 

[kreynolds]

Actually, you just further proved my point. It looks like we have to figure out the monster's ECL (Effective Character Level) in order to find out how much XP they have. For that, you don't need charts like the dragon's either because you still have to figure out the dragon's ECL, which thankfully, was published by Dragon Magazine.