Level Up (A5E) Spells that would ruin the world

[TYP]

Long time player, first time poster, at least here.

I'm starting up an A5E campaign, and am very excited about the many improvements. However, one of the things I'm not looking forward to is the Alter Self spell, which for my money, is one of the most broken spells in the game. My personal vendetta against Alter Self began with a player whose sorcerer would use it, along with a Hat of Disguise, to gain total impunity to consequences for his actions. The hat was always activated, leading to strings of saving throws from NPCs observing his crimes, and when he'd get in a pickle he'd use Alter Self to avoid the guards. I was trying to run a low-ish magic game, so I didn't want guards walking around with items that cast Detect Magic, not least because enterprising parties would would soon lay their hands on such an item and further unbalance the game.

To me, it seems like Alter Self and Disguise self would be the favorite spells of sex offenders and general a-holes, and I shiver to think of a world where that kind of magic would be available. Looking at T&T, the A5E Hat of Disguise is only 250 gp. 250 gp!?! I shiver to think what the spoiled noble sons of the A5E would would get up to with that kind of magic.

So, what spells have you encountered that, if used by actual people, would lead to unexpected and horrific effects?

 

[Faolyn]

To me, it seems like Alter Self and Disguise self would be the favorite spells of sex offenders and general a-holes, and I shiver to think of a world where that kind of magic would be available. Looking at T&T, the A5E Hat of Disguise is only 250 gp. 250 gp!?! I shiver to think what the spoiled noble sons of the A5E would would get up to with that kind of magic.

On the plus side, that would make for a really good villain for the PCs to track.

 

[Stalker0]

so just noting, if your going for a low magic game, probably best not to have magic items that produce at-will effects

So I don't know about ruin in terms of absolutely destroy, but here's just a couple when taken to their logical conclusion can create a variety of problems or at least would greatly change the landscape of a game.

Blood-writ Bargain: Its a ritual, meaning even just one caster with it could do 30-40 castings a day as a full time job. With the power enforced by this spell, you would imagine a lot of deals and pacts would be sealed this way. It would lead to the erosion of "using your word" to finish deals, afterall, why trust in a person when you can get angels to enforce good behavior?

Calculate: This gives you early computer levels of mathematical power. A caster with this spell can do the math in seconds that it would take the greatest math genius to ever live an 1 hour to do....that is actually obscenely fast. A cabal of casters with this simple cantrip could be crunching the numbers done in like 1960's society with computing.

Continual Flame - the classic economy breaker, its a spell with continuous use over several generation, should assume that any city reasonable resources should be awash in light. Its basically a better lightbulb than the lightbulb.

Detect Poison and Disease: though LU did nerf it a bit, ultimately its a 1st level ritual, meaning any community with a cleric should have this spell on tap. Plagues should be far weaker in most communities, feeling ill....swing by the cleric, and he will immediately know if your sick and should be quarantined.

Fabricate: The other common economy killer. A wizard with tool proficiency in this spell would drive any regular artisan out of business, unless the artison is exceptionally skilled and can beat out quantity with quality. Any wizard with this ability should be able to become ludicrously rich unless you want to have a guild intervene and setup an entire plotline outside of your core game.

Speak with Dead: Imagine picking the brains of the greatest minds for thousands of years after their dead. Learning the murderers of many crimes with a single spell. The unlimited nature of this spell makes it incredible abusable if you push it.

Wall of Stone: In 10 minutes you can create ~40 tons of stone anywhere you want. Beyond just fashioning massive stone structures with ease, you can create your own insta quarry, with super easy to access stone right near your market. Completely changes the mining industry in seconds.

 

[DeviousQuail]

Well dang, @Stalker0 hit the three I was going to say and then some. My rule of thumb for settings that make use of magics that have permanent effects is to set a 1 year time-limit followed by faster than normal decay. Build all the stone structures you want but eventually you'll be spending your days on upkeep instead of making something new.

As for creepy nobles disguising themselves, it does sound like the plot of a magical police tv show. The locals may not be able to do anything about it but someone with power should eventually take notice. Perhaps an order of knights who hunt down those that abuse magic in their ruler's lands?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would make casters with this level of power sufficiently rare that any who choose to use it for crass commercial purposes are constantly mobbed and have a waiting list a mile long. Wizards aren't generally known for their entrepreneurial skills.

Of course, a solid partnership with someone who is good at that sort of thing could be the basis for a very unusual campaign...

 

[Stalker0]

I would make casters with this level of power sufficiently rare that any who choose to use it for crass commercial purposes are constantly mobbed and have a waiting list a mile long. Wizards aren't generally known for their entrepreneurial skills.

But the question is....do you really? Aka are there no real 7th level spellcasters in your game? Because if there are....why wouldn't they do this?

That's always the question. As a DM we don't normally think about those things. We want to challenge our party, we cough up a magic user. But as soon as you've thrown a few mid tier casters like this out in the world, it becomes a bigger world building question. Many games just flat out ignore it, which is fine. But if you do try to incorporate thigns like that in the world building....things can get skewed very quickly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't ignore it. I just think that high-level spellcasters generally have other priorities.

 

[Morrus]

To me, it seems like Alter Self and Disguise self would be the favorite spells of sex offenders and general a-holes, and I shiver to think of a world where that kind of magic would be available.

So the world you make either has this problem as an epidemic or it doesn't. If it does, I guess the natural consequence is magical task forces hunting those people down. Or your world doesn't have an alter-self sex offender epidemic (which is what we assume, because who wants that?) and it's not a problem.

 

[TYP]

I had a player that used Fabricate in annoying ways; for instance, to make a taco cart (literally) as his way of helping the column of refugees he was supposed to be escorting out of a warzone. He was a friend, but didn't know how to manage tone well. I like DeviousQuail's suggestion about the limited durability of magically created objects (fairy gold), and it makes me thinking that things created by the fabricate spell might be not so wonderfully constructed. Yes, you can build that bridge magically, but are you an engineer? Because what you've created will have to survive on its own in the real world of physical forces after it's created.

Stalker's point about world building is exactly what bothers me; you end up with a magical arms race that, at least for me, erodes my suspension of disbelief. I also agree with Micah's point about higher level spellcasters having other things to worry about, but it seems to me the mechanics of this have been lessened. I think we have an archetype of a wizard that spends all their time cloistered in a tower unlocking the secrets of the universe, but I don't feel like the guts of DnD, from 3rd edition on, make that a necessity. After all, PC wizards don't learn jack in a tower, they unlock their powers by fireballing orcs and robbing tombs. That is, of course, a hyperbolic characterization, but I hope the point comes across. It's up to GMs to create reasons that higher level spellcasters aren't mucking about like this, because the mechanics of the game certainly don't support it.

Though, extrapolating from the spell costs on page 351 of the Adventurer's Guide, casting a level four spell would cost around 500 gp (Remove Curse, level 3, and Seeming, level 5, are both 500 gp). Looking at the stronghold costs, you could get an acre sized rural stronghold for that much, and the equipment section says a skilled artisan charges 1 gp per day. So I guess there are other magical expenses that keep the cost of casting those spells so high.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I had a player that used Fabricate in annoying ways; for instance, to make a taco cart (literally) as his way of helping the column of refugees he was supposed to be escorting out of a warzone. He was a friend, but didn't know how to manage tone well. I like DeviousQuail's suggestion about the limited durability of magically created objects (fairy gold), and it makes me thinking that things created by the fabricate spell might be not so wonderfully constructed. Yes, you can build that bridge magically, but are you an engineer? Because what you've created will have to survive on its own in the real world of physical forces after it's created.

Stalker's point about world building is exactly what bothers me; you end up with a magical arms race that, at least for me, erodes my suspension of disbelief. I also agree with Micah's point about higher level spellcasters having other things to worry about, but it seems to me the mechanics of this have been lessened. I think we have an archetype of a wizard that spends all their time cloistered in a tower unlocking the secrets of the universe, but I don't feel like the guts of DnD, from 3rd edition on, make that a necessity. After all, PC wizards don't learn jack in a tower, they unlock their powers by fireballing orcs and robbing tombs. That is, of course, a hyperbolic characterization, but I hope the point comes across. It's up to GMs to create reasons that higher level spellcasters aren't mucking about like this, because the mechanics of the game certainly don't support it.

Though, extrapolating from the spell costs on page 351 of the Adventurer's Guide, casting a level four spell would cost around 500 gp (Remove Curse, level 3, and Seeming, level 5, are both 500 gp). Looking at the stronghold costs, you could get an acre sized rural stronghold for that much, and the equipment section says a skilled artisan charges 1 gp per day. So I guess there are other magical expenses that keep the cost of casting those spells so high.

See, I came from TSR-era D&D; my mind-set has remained in the 90s. I've always assumed that non-adventuring casters gain xp via going about their professional business (research, church duties, etc) and still earn levels, but at a much slower rate.