Spells which were not properly nerved...

[Twowolves]

Make mine a Fat Tire and it's a deal!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'd say unattended noisy items do, yeah. Of course, if a +1 shield were silenced.. who'd notice? Again, I think the spell is worded as it is because of weird stand-alone magical noisemakers.

I never understood why Silence is an Illusion(Glammer). It really should be Transmutation, IMO.

*goes to check is 1st ed PHB*

In fact, it was Alteration back in 1st ed. And it used to specify "No save" in the spell block, and state in the description that if you tried to stick the emanation the target did get a save. Making the save centered the effect 1 foot behind the intended target.

And oddly enough, the name of the spell was "Silence, 15' Radius" but the effect line in the stat block said "30' Diameter Sphere"....

you know, a 30' diameter sphere has a 15' radius?

maybe silence was nerfed in 3.0 and noone noticed... funny

 

[Nikosandros]

And oddly enough, the name of the spell was "Silence, 15' Radius" but the effect line in the stat block said "30' Diameter Sphere"....

Why is it odd? Because it lists the radius in the name and the diameter in the 'stat block'? There are far weirder things in AD&D...

 

[Twowolves]

I know they are the same, but why not call the spell "Silence, 30' Diameter" or have the effect line say "Area of Effect: 15' Radius". Just struck me as odd to use both terms. *shrug*

As for weirder things in D&D, I direct your attention to "The Forest Oracle"....

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually i really thought you know it. I may have an explanation:

when you are fighting on a 2-dimensional battle map, the easiest thing to draw the circe is using a thread which is 15'' long and pin it on the point of origin.

The area in a 3-dimensional world however is a sphere, which you usually describe with its diameter. So if you are quick referencing your character sheet, 15' is the important information. If you re describing the effect, the other onformation is more important.

Actually the fireball in ADnD would have been described best with its volumina. because usually it is a half sphere with a bigger radius, because it used to spread out to its full volumina and you usually attacked someone on ground... (so fireball 20' would not have made any sense at all)

 

[Felix]

Isn't this why wizards have arrayed in front of them fighters, barbarians, clerics, summoned monsters and other various obstacles to getting right next to them?

Sure Silence can be a bugger, but it's not so easy as simply walking up next to the wizard and hitting him; if that were the case wizards wouldn't be long for the world at all.

If you cast it on a point in space as a counterspell, I'd let that work. I'd also give the wizard a Spellcraft check to identify Silence and know that the radius is 15'. Sure, the wizard's spell was lost, but the cleric spent his round neither buffing, healing, nor meleeing.

EDIT:

On further review, the casting time of Silence is 1 round, so it could never be used in this way. Furthermore, this would allow a wizard who realizes the cleric is casting Silence the opportunity to disturb his casting, block his line of effect, or otherwise hamper him.

The caster may not be able to define the boundaries of the silence either.

Spellcraft will tell him the radius, and when he moves far enough, hearing things again will define the boundary pretty well.

Silence cast on a melee type will let that character nix the wizard's spells and provide a mobile base for the radius, but then there's the problem of getting that melee character next to the wizard; a clever wizard will have his minions (with more than 1hp) arrayed to make this less likely.

It's powerful, but not in need of a nerf by any means.

EDIT #2:
Ok, so there's more than one page to this thread and most of that was covered. Hmm... I disagree with Pawnsplay in that the "centered on" language is equivalent to a target, but allows points in space and objects. You only get a save if it's "centered on" you, in which case the spell is canceled.

Also:
WHATTUP, SALTHORE!

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I never understood why Silence is an Illusion(Glammer). It really should be Transmutation, IMO.

Well, school classification is extremely arbitrary. I think everybody agrees on that. But I do try to set guidelines and boundaries.

Changing the qualities of the subject with regard to the five senses-- particularly sight (easiest), sounds (easy), smell, thermal, and even touch (the most difficult to master) is the purview of Illusion.

You can either change those sensory qualities as they are perceived by the target (via changing what he "thinks" he is sensing, in which case it is mind-affecting) or you can actually change the sensual qualities of the target itself (usually, this will be a glamer at least, possibly even shadow-stuff if you require tactile qualities).

Illusions, in other words, can be either subjective (each viewer may view the illusion differently) or objective (the illusion "appears" the same to all viewers).

[sblock]
You could also think of the Illusion school as "hacking" the sensory information. You can either intercept the sensory information at the source, suppress it, change it, and from there pass on false information to all observers (an objective "server side" change); or you can attempt to hack the information as it arrives at each observer, and change it there (a subjective "client side" change).[/sblock]

So for example, the observers of a creature under the effects of invisibility do not get a saving throw because the target is objectively invisible; its visual qualities have actually changed.

I don't believe that either invisibility or silence should be Transmutation spells, as I prefer Transmutation to involve the alteration of much more tangible matter.

Transmutation is a slippery slope: because all spells "alter reality" you can pretty much justify sliding anything into Transmutation if you don't set clear guidelines up front. (Ergo, the long stretch of design time where Transmutation spells were ubiquitous.)

I have a device I call, "the Spoon of Sufficient Size" that I use to measure the targets for various spells. Telekinetic abilities notwithstanding, Transmutation should generally not involve the manipulation of light waves, sound waves, or energy, but rather only those things that you can hold in the Spoon. (Ditto for Conjuration-- you can't conjure "fire," but you can conjure "a fiery chunk of magma.")

 

[frankthedm]

If the GM does not nerf silence for the game, I think it is well within reason for casters in-world to make counters to deal with the spell. Few years back I suggested this one..

Amplify
Evocation
Level: Brd 2, Sor/wizard 2
Components: S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)

Upon the casting of this spell, everything in the area become far louder. Whispers become as loud as a normal talking and conversations become shouting matches. All listen check DCs for sounds originating in the area are reduced by 15.

Any sonic effect within the area loud enough to cause a creature harm, such as a spell with the Sonic descriptor has the additional effect of a thunderstone. This also expends the energy of the amplify spell.

Multiple Amplify effects don’t stack. Amplify counters and dispels Silence. Silence counters and dispels Amplify.

Material component: A thunderstone.

 

[Sadrik]

If the GM does not nerf silence for the game, I think it is well within reason for casters in-world to make counters to deal with the spell. Few years back I suggested this one..

Amplify
Evocation
Level: Brd 2, Sor/wizard 2
Components: S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)

Upon the casting of this spell, everything in the area become far louder. Whispers become as loud as a normal talking and conversations become shouting matches. All listen check DCs for sounds originating in the area are reduced by 15.

Any sonic effect within the area loud enough to cause a creature harm, such as a spell with the Sonic descriptor has the additional effect of a thunderstone. This also expends the energy of the amplify spell.

Multiple Amplify effects don’t stack. Amplify counters and dispels Silence. Silence counters and dispels Amplify.

Material component: A thunderstone.

I like it. However, I can see it being a level 1 spell, simply because it gives everyone a megaphone in a 20' spread, imho not really a level 2 effect. As a neat side effect it counters stealth rolls to some degree too. Nice spell.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Frank, you're aware that Amplify is a Bard level 1 spell in Spell Compendium p. 10, right? It counters and dispels silence, as well as making sounds in the area louder (so it has a use other than counter-acting silence). If you enforce listen checks for bardic music to affect allies at distances away, Amplify can be a useful spell for any bard, not just those afraid of silence.

There is also the Joyful Noise spell in that book, also Bard 1, though it has no other real uses and requires concentration to maintain, so I find it less useful overall.