spells you think are the wrong level

[Plane Sailing]

My thoughts exactly, PS Except it is worse than a full-round action to cast. It's a full round.

That's what I meant - it doesn't come off until just before your next action, like summon monster spells.

(that'll teach me to post just before midnight while I'm tired

 

[Zweihänder]

You may want to reread Sleep again--I can't see how it can possibly take out 5 creatures. It does 4 HD, and that's it.

Compare to Colour Spray, which is far more powerful. The spell Colour Spray pretty much single-handedly won the first two adventures of Shackled City for our party.

I mistyped. 3 to 4.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I mistyped. 3 to 4.

Still, though--what about Colour Spray?

 

[Zweihänder]

Still, though--what about Colour Spray?

What ABOUT Color Spray?

 

[Rystil Arden]

What ABOUT Color Spray?

It is better than sleep in a huge way. You made a claim above that Sleep is the most powerful spell at its level, but Plane Sailing has already shown why Colour Spray is much better. Sleep is a joke--worthless in almost every way.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It's weird that Overland Flight and Plane Shift are both 5th level spells. Crossing the Crystalmists doesn't seem that impressive when you can travel to other planes of existence. In terms of opening up adventure locations, the most important spells are:

Water Breathing, available at 5th level
Overland Flight at 9th
Plane Shift at 9th (13th for wizards)

The best solution would probably be to bump Plane Shift to being a 7th level spell for clerics, as it is for wizards. Other planes are really the final adventure location for a D&D campaign, nothing is more removed or more alien, so it seems wrong to get it at only 9th level, less than halfway through the 1-20 progression.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I played a gnome sorcerer who made great use of Disappear from Relics & Rituals. A 1st level spell with a duration of 2 rounds, makes the caster invisible on the round in which it is cast and the following round, and grants a +4 to concentration check to complete casting the spell. Perfect for a caster caught in melee who needs Disappear.

Swift Invisibility from Complete Adventurer makes the caster invisible for only one round and is a 2nd level spell. Its casting time is one swift action though.

 

[Remathilis]

Heal is WAY too nice for its level. You jump from 4d8+20 (max 52) to 10/cl (max 150) in two spell levels?

 

[airwalkrr]

Me - I'd take another look at silence. It does double duty as a means to obviate Move Silent checks and as a way to shut down enemy spellcasters. Maybe they need breaking apart and reassigning.

My interpretation is that a spellcaster gets a save, even if the spell is not targetted on them, just as I rule anyone in the area of a spell gets a save unless they voluntarily fail (like most characters do with magic circle against evil). With that in mind, silence allows a Will save. Any creature entering the area or being interrupted by having silence cast on them within the area can make a save to avoid the effect. With that in mind, targetting a spellcaster with a Will save is anything but an automatic counterspell against spells with verbal components.

In my opinion, silence was designed to be used as a utility spell, not a counterspell. The reminder that spellcasters cannot cast while in the area only applies to those who fail their save and consequently this is usually only those who want to be silent and voluntarily fail. It was only meant to remind PCs that you cannot cast spells silently while sneaking up on someone with this spell (you need zone of silence for that).

While it does serve as a handy substitute for Move Silently, there are drawbacks. Namely that it is a 2nd level spell and a good rogue can Move Silently all day long.

 

[Hussar]

Heal is WAY too nice for its level. You jump from 4d8+20 (max 52) to 10/cl (max 150) in two spell levels?

Yes, but two spell levels is 4 character levels. That's a pretty huge jump. By that time, you're also dealing with stat bump items which can drill hp through the roof.

In other words, 52 hp to a 7th level character is usually enough to bump him a long ways to max. 52 points to an 11th level character is quite often only a 1/3 or even a 1/4 of max, particularly for the barbarian in your party.

I do agree with dispel magic being 1st level and universal though. And, as an added bonus, make it a swift action to cast so counterspelling actually becomes viable.

As far as advancement rates go, I'm not so sure. There really isn't a huge difference in how my PC's advanced between the editions - every 4-6 sessions. Now, granted, that's anecdotal, but, from various polls here, that seems to be the norm rather than the exception. I think the major difference is more the idea that double digit levels are actually viable for play rather than the forgotten half of the game it was previously.