Spellthief Question

[DungeonmasterCal]

Please, before this turns into a "love it or lump it" thread where the Spellthief is regarded, let me just say I need an opinion on one of the class abilities.

Steal Spell (Su): A spellthief can siphon spell energy away from his target and use it himself. A spellthief who hits an opponent with a successful sneak attack can choose to forgo dealing 1d6 points of sneak attack damage and instead steal a spell, or the potential to cast a specific known spell, from his target. If the target is willing, a spellthief can steal a spell with a touch as a standard action.

Would the Spellthief actually have to strike a spellcaster via a Sneak Attack, or could he just "bump" into a wizard or sorcerer in a crowded bazaar? A touch attack (at least) would still have to be made if the target was unaware or flatfooted, but would the Steal Spell ability have to cause damage-barehanded or otherwise? My personal opinion is that merely touching a creature that meets the requirements for a successful Sneak Attack would work just as well.

 

[shilsen]

Since it says "successful sneak attack", I'd say you have to deal damage (lethal or non-lethal). Just "bumping" into someone doesn't count as a sneak attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not having access to the Spellthief - can one do this with a sneak attack with a Ray of Frost from 30 feet away?

Or only a melee attack?

-Hyp.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

You can see the class in its entirety on the WotC website. It doesn't say anything about a ray attack, just sneak attack. Good question, though. It seems to imply a melee attack, though.

 

[Len]

My personal opinion is that merely touching a creature that meets the requirements for a successful Sneak Attack would work just as well.

I think that's wrong. You have to "successfully" sneak attack the target and give up 1d6 of the damage you did. If you just touch someone without damaging them, that's not a sneak attack, and where do you take that 1d6 from?

If the target is willing then you can steal a spell just by touching, but you don't even have to try to sneak attack in that case.

Not having access to the Spellthief - can one do this with a sneak attack with a Ray of Frost from 30 feet away?

Note that a Spellthief can't normally cast Ray of Frost - but he can steal it and then use it to sneak attack.

But I'm not sure whether you're supposed to steal spells with ranged sneak attacks or not. As DMCal said, it's not forbidden but it sounds like that might be an oversight.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that a Spellthief can't normally cast Ray of Frost - but he can steal it and then use it to sneak attack.

[shrug] UMD is a class skill, and 0-level wands are pretty cheap

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

But I'm not sure whether you're supposed to steal spells with ranged sneak attacks or not. As DMCal said, it's not forbidden but it sounds like that might be an oversight.

To me, it sounds like people getting jumpy and saying "Oh my god, that has to be an oversight".

The spellthief has the same "sneak attacks within 30ft are possible" text in his sneak attack description as a thief.

Whenever he sneak attacks, he trades dice of sneak attack for his abilities.

It's a pretty simple formula. No mention of melee sneak attacks is ever made.

So yes, he can do it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It strikes me as a rather unusual mechanic

"The lich is completely unaware of me - can I steal a spell?"
"No, he doesn't have kidneys."

But if the lich allows you to, you can steal a spell by just touching him.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus]

Two quick questions...

1) If I have a 2d6 Sneak Attack, can I forgo 1d6 to steal a spell and then forgo the other 1d6 to steal a second spell? Essentially stealing 2 spells during that attack?

2) It says that you can declare the spell you want to steal, but if they do not have said spell, the DM randomly picks on for you to steal. So lets say I am able to steal up to 3rd level spells. Let's say I pick Haste as a spell I want to steal (a 3rd level spell). The enemy does not have Haste spell, so the DM randomly rolls to see what spell I get instead. Does the DM randomly roll for ALL spells the character knows (up to 3rd level), meaning I could get any spell from level 0 to 3rd? Or should the DM randomly roll against the 3rd level spells, since that is the spell level I intended to steal from?

 

[Scion]

It strikes me as a rather unusual mechanic

"The lich is completely unaware of me - can I steal a spell?"
"No, he doesn't have kidneys."

But if the lich allows you to, you can steal a spell by just touching him.

-Hyp.

Perhaps the sneak attack is successful, but the lich is immune to the damage. So, you reduce the damage that they are immune to by a d6 and steal a spell. Much like with a flaming weapon that hits a fire immune guy you can stil calculate the d6 damage, they are simply immune to it.

SRD:
Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.


'not vulnerable' doesnt mean that you cant still calculate the damage, it just isnt applied

That wording is different than later where it says 'cannot sneak attack' under certain conditions.