Spellweaver CR10??

[kigmatzomat]

Has anyone used one of these in a game? Did it seem like a CR10? Did I miss an errata?

The spellweaver, for those not aware, is a 10hd six-armed monstrous humanoid from MMII. Weak strength and con but decent-to-great everything else. It casts as a 12th level sorceror, can cast up to six spells at the same time (limited to 6 spell levels total), gets a 10-spell level battery that explodes if anyone else touches it, causes insanity in anyone who tries to telepathically bond with it, innate invisibility and plane shift, and gets 2 slam attacks. This is supposed to be a CR10 creature.

I was under the impression a 12th level sorceror was CR12 but I must be on crack again. This thing has a better BAB (3/4 x10=7 vs 1/2 x 12=6), more attacks (2 slams at full bab), better saves (Ref & Will good), great stats (elite+), gear on par with a 12th level NPC, and several innate abilities. The worst you can say about it is that it has the same average hp as a sorceror (d8-1con vs d6). Given their high (16) int, I can't conceive of a reason why they wouldn't be CR13+.

Someone who's GMd one of these let me know. I was going to use one until I read it. Ack!

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Not to mention I think they can release thirty magic missiles at once and do 30d4 force damage, which can really ruin someones day.

 

[ken-ichi]

For starters, the 2 slam attacks are worthless. Ignore them.

Its treasure total for a EL 10 encounter with double magic items is on average 8,450 gp. Much less than that of a 10th level character. Not a lot of nasty that you can get with average treasure.

The disk only explodes if someone else tries to use the spell energy inside it.

36 hp for a CR 10. That is pretty low most CR 10 creatures have 100-150 hp, dome up to 300 hp. There are a few that have about 50. Sorcerors have d4s though, not d6s.

Pathetic Fort Save. +2 ? Say hello to mr. monk's fist.

Don't forget to bump down the DCs of the schools that it has Focus in, they only get half of what they used to.

It doesn't even have the Concentration skill

You did not mention the SR 21 they have. Only thing keeping them alive from a random fireball or other attack spell.

Seriously this thing would have to have some major prep time to survive at all against 4 10th level characters. A few hits from just about anything and its dead. It is a glass cannon if it cannot be hit then it is great, but the moment the flying monk or fighter is in its face it is gone.
I give this thing about 2 maybe three rounds of combat at most (barring unusual party makeup or favoring encounter setup).

 

[shilsen]

Not to mention I think they can release thirty magic missiles at once and do 30d4 force damage, which can really ruin someones day.

That's 30d4+30! Avg. damage - 105 pts.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Has anyone used one of these in a game? Did it seem like a CR10? Did I miss an errata?!

Have you looked at some of the other things in that book? If I remember correctly, the Adamantine Horror is a CR 9 that can use Disintegrate, Implosion, and Mordenkainen's Disjunction at will. In other words, Save or Die, Save or Die several times, or Save or lose all of your magical items. All for a CR 9. Sorry, but no treasure from a CR 9 is going to justify that.

I was under the impression a 12th level sorceror was CR12 but I must be on crack again.

No, in my opinion it's WotC that's on crack. And that's not the only time, either- I point your attention to Exhibit A: The Steel Dragon.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a

That's right. A Great Wyrm Steel Dragon has a cone of poison breath weapon, SR 38 (48 against low-level spells), and casts spells as a 21st-level Sorcerer (along with all sorts of other goodies, such as insane HP, BAB, and saves) and it's a CR 18. As if a 21st-level Sorcerer were a CR 18- now, it's a 21st-level Sorcerer with highly superior HP, BAB, and all sorts of other goodies (like almost unbeatable SR).

Way to go, WotC.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

That's 30d4+30! Avg. damage - 105 pts.

Woah, I forgot the extra 30 damage. Heh, that is still enough to ruin a PC's day, especially if it is a mage without a shield spell up. Then it might ruin the PC's life.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

If the spell weaver wins initiative it is highly like that one party member will die. No save, only a shield spell could save him.

But the spell weaver could also instead of using magic missle use 3 scorching rays (36d6 if all hit, average damage, 126) or 2 vampiric touches (20d6, average 70 damage) which would take care of the things hit point problem real fast and allow it to possibly being a spell cannon for 1-2 more rounds.

There are probably several other low level attack spells I'm over looking that if used could kill a party member or two.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Yet another example of the screwed up CR system. I just don't get it sometimes. This creature should be like CR 16.

 

[FireLance]

The CR system is fine, but sometimes there are typos, sometimes the CRs are incorrectly assigned, and sometimes it's the monsters that are screwy.

What's the CR of a Dex 10, Con 1, Cha 30 Aberration with AC 10, 1d8-5 HD, 1 hp and the ability to use Wail of the Banshee (living creatures in a 40-ft spread must succeed at a DC 29 Fort Save or die) at will as a spell-like ability?

A 1st-level party could defeat it if someone wins initiative. A 20th-level party could be TPK'ed if no one does.

Such monsters are examples of bad game design simply because an encounter with one is either a cakewalk or results in character death, and either outcome is just no fun. Forget CR - do yourself and your players a favor and don't even include them in your games.

 

[Plane Sailing]

No, in my opinion it's WotC that's on crack. And that's not the only time, either- I point your attention to Exhibit A: The Steel Dragon.

And how about exhibit B, from the monster manual:
Trumpet Archon. CR14,

Casts spells as a 14th level Cleric, plus has lots and lots of benefits (attributes, resistances, supernatural and spell like abilities)

Hmm.