Spike TV 2005 Video Game Awards

[Dark Jezter]

Square coined teh phrase making it popular by giving it a name and a high profile. This is true with a lot of products. There are a ton of inventions that existed but weren't noticed until a big company gave it a name.

So once again, you're saying Square didn't coin the phrase... but they did.

Initiative = turn based. That should clear it up. In the earlier gaming days it was not feasible to do full initiative based games so you'd have party based initiative games or turn-based games. The name stuck, however the games have always been iniative based and are the same thing.

Now initiative means the same thing as turn-based? I'm just making sure I've got this right, because your definitions seem to be changing with each new post you make.

the problem with this is that without the initiative factor, then grand theft auto and that whole line of games are rpgs under your definition. Oh yeah, and don't forget the zeldas, the resident evils, the god of wars, and all other games that allow you to upgrade and play with pc stats in a free roaming environment.

WizarDru already explained earlier in this thread why Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil, and the like are not role-playing games. I see little point in repeating his statements.

The only reason you're calling Jade empire an RPG is because the company told you to.

Wow, I had no idea that the company had so much control over my thoughts.

At any rate, that's a BS argument. If somebody had handed me a copy of Jade Empire to play and I knew absolutely nothing about it beforehand, I would still classify it as an RPG because that's what it is.

Definitions are rarely ever outdated. At its core, whatever is being defined is still as it is defined. I think its a big deal in this discussion to differinate what is a marketing term and what is a definition. A role playing game, which is based off of its tabletop predeccsor, contains initiative combat and exploration as well as player development. Those elements still help define the tabletop predecssor that the games are based off of. Thus they should still define games in the computer and video game market, as they did for the last 30 years.

Well, you are welcome to your own opinion on what makes an RPG an RPG, but it isn't one held by myself, the game industry, or most video game players I've encountered. In fact, I'd wager that gamers on a whole don't subscribe to your philosophy on CRPGs, but because there's never been any kind of polling done on it, there would be no way for me to back up such a claim.

All this action roleplaying, adventure role playing, role playing kungfu is just marketing crap to pull in certain types of gamers. How many people would have picked it up if it wasn't coined an action rpg? Same with xmen legends.. which had a bad reputation of having bad xmen games previously?

Yeah! If X-Men Legends had been classified as an action game rather than an RPG, it never would have sold. Everybody knows that RPGs are big sellers, while action games are a niche genre.

 

[DonTadow]

So once again, you're saying Square didn't coin the phrase... but they did.



Now initiative means the same thing as turn-based? I'm just making sure I've got this right, because your definitions seem to be changing with each new post you make.



WizarDru already explained earlier in this thread why Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil, and the like are not role-playing games. I see little point in repeating his statements.



Wow, I had no idea that the company had so much control over my thoughts.

At any rate, that's a BS argument. If somebody had handed me a copy of Jade Empire to play and I knew absolutely nothing about it beforehand, I would still classify it as an RPG because that's what it is.



Well, you are welcome to your own opinion on what makes an RPG an RPG, but it isn't one held by myself, the game industry, or most video game players I've encountered. In fact, I'd wager that gamers on a whole don't subscribe to your philosophy on CRPGs, but because there's never been any kind of polling done on it, there would be no way for me to back up such a claim.



Yeah! If X-Men Legends had been classified as an action game rather than an RPG, it never would have sold. Everybody knows that RPGs are big sellers, while action games are a niche genre.

Now you're just misquoting me to be misquoting me. What i said was SQUARESOFT coined the phrase during the final fantasy six craze. It was a big selling point in the interviews and advertisements. (I Hope that's clear)

TURNBASED is a FORM of INITIATIVE. With the programing capabilities of earlier rpgs, it was the best they could do. As games became more advanced and Square took off, people made advancements on turnbased making it more like the model of initative that it was based off. (Hope that was clear)

I must have missed wiz's explanation of why thyrenot RPGs. As far as I can tell the argument seems to be their not because people say they're not. but by your definition they should be. The only difference between shin megasi and grand theft auto is the combat. Both have exploration and both have statable characters.

You really can't say now what you woud have thought jade empire was. YOu don't even consider zelda an RPG, but by your very argument it is. YOu claim that Zelda doesnt upgrade himself but Zelda upgrades himself through equipment, ala characters in dungeons and dragons campaigns. And yes, marketing effects us all. But i'm more interested in the classical definitions of the genres.

The Xmen games have had a bad repution in the action game genre and it would have been counter productive to lable it a straight action game. So they took the action game and through rpg on it to market to rpg fan and allow it to cross sell in japan, where RPGS are bigger than action games. This way they settle two markets with one stone.

Definitions, like laws, are based on presidence not my opinions. If a, b, c,d and e were rpgs and g was not one 15 years ago, why would you categorize g as an rpg now.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Now you're just misquoting me to be misquoting me. What i said was SQUARESOFT coined the phrase during the final fantasy six craze. It was a big selling point in the interviews and advertisements. (I Hope that's clear)

And yet the term Real Time Combat was used in relation to RPGs and strategy games by computer gaming magazines throughout the 1980s.

TURNBASED is a FORM of INITIATIVE. With the programing capabilities of earlier rpgs, it was the best they could do. As games became more advanced and Square took off, people made advancements on turnbased making it more like the model of initative that it was based off. (Hope that was clear)

I must have missed wiz's explanation of why thyrenot RPGs. As far as I can tell the argument seems to be their not because people say they're not. but by your definition they should be. The only difference between shin megasi and grand theft auto is the combat. Both have exploration and both have statable characters.

The reason they're not considered RPGs is because the core gameplay is not derived from PnP Roleplaying games.

You really can't say now what you woud have thought jade empire was.

Oh, and you can tell me what I would have thought Jade Empire was? Please.

I can say with complete confidence that I would have labeled Jade Empire an RPG had I played it without knowing what it was beforehand. Just as I would label Civilization a strategy game, Half-Life a first person shooter, and Madden NFL 2006 a sports game.

YOu don't even consider zelda an RPG, but by your very argument it is. YOu claim that Zelda doesnt upgrade himself but Zelda upgrades himself through equipment, ala characters in dungeons and dragons campaigns. And yes, marketing effects us all. But i'm more interested in the classical definitions of the genres.

Yes, Link can gain more heart containers to improve his health, and he can get more powerful swords to improve his attack damage. This does not make it an RPG. The core gameplay mechanics are not derived from PnP RPGs. It's an action (or adventure, if you'd prefer) game that borrows certain elements from the RPG genre.

The Xmen games have had a bad repution in the action game genre and it would have been counter productive to lable it a straight action game. So they took the action game and through rpg on it to market to rpg fan and allow it to cross sell in japan, where RPGS are bigger than action games. This way they settle two markets with one stone.

Interesting theory. Can you back that up in any way?

Definitions, like laws, are based on presidence not my opinions. If a, b, c,d and e were rpgs and g was not one 15 years ago, why would you categorize g as an rpg now.

Because 15 years ago, the technology to make G did not exist.

At any rate, I'm tired of arguing what and what is not an RPG. So I'm gonna bow out now.

 

[Raloc]

It just ended. Did anyone else watch? What did you think?

Saw the ads for it, but I was struck by the fact that they pretty much just advertised which celebrities they'd be having on it to flaunt around, which put me off of it. I don't watch a games award show to see celebrities.

 

[Arnwyn]

Not to get into this, but didn't Squaresoft coin the phrase "Active Time Battle" (ATB)?

I don't think "real time" is said by Square anywhere...

 

[Skrit]

And God of War getting so many awards? That was one of the worst games I have played in quite a while. It was a ridiculous formulaic gimmickfest that beat Greek Mythology around with a spiked sledgehammer.

That's similar to saying "I don't like Saving Private Ryan, because it makes Omaha beach look like a 20min battle"

 

[The_Universe]

It just ended. Did anyone else watch? What did you think?

Are you kidding me? It's a waste of time so useless that I would rather be working.