Spiked chain wielders and how to DM for them?

[The Souljourner]

Master of Chains is an exceedingly crappy PrC. The benefits are almost useless. Ooh Scare... I'm so... scared.

Fighting while climbing chains... yeah, that will come up often. Using it as a double weapon.... we've already determined that two weapon fighting sucks sour frog ass... why bother?

Extra spikeyness that goes away after a few hits and has to be remade? Useless. Creating armor out of chains? Useless.

There are almost NO good abilities for this class *especially* given the enormous entry requirements. You'd be better off just going straight fighter.... yes, that is how bad this class is.

-The Souljourner

 

[Darklone]

Two weapon fighting with a double weapon does not necessarily suck.

 

[The Souljourner]

How does it not suck? You still have to take all those extra feats, and they just get more difficult to qualify for and grant you a smaller benefit. You need 6 feats to get into the class, how many spare do you really expect to have?

I stand by my assertion that the class is total crap. Check out the different between master of chains and the lasher... lasher is *way* easier to get into and gets a ton better special abilities.

-The Souljourner

 

[Vurt]

Master of Chains aside, is there any reasonable explanation why someone with the Two-weapon fighting and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) feats shouldn't be able to switch between the using it for reach or for an extra attack?

If I were training in such a weapon, it seems like it would be the obvious thing to do. Is there some game mechanical reason not to allow it? i.e. too nasty getting extra trip attacks, or with Improved two-weapon fighting, or some other? It seems a little odd that, in effect, only non-good spiked chain weilders (those that took the prestige class) can use the weapon in such a fashion.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[Storm Raven]

How does it not suck? You still have to take all those extra feats, and they just get more difficult to qualify for and grant you a smaller benefit. You need 6 feats to get into the class, how many spare do you really expect to have?

A seventh level human Fighter4/Rogue3 has seven feats. He could get all of the entry requirements, plus Two-Weapon Fighting and have no troubles qualifying for the class.

I stand by my assertion that the class is total crap. Check out the different between master of chains and the lasher... lasher is *way* easier to get into and gets a ton better special abilities.

You can stand by the assertion, you'd just be wrong. The lasher qualifies for a PrC with a subpar weapon: less damage, no AoOs at more than 5 feet (even with the PrC), less benefits in the weapon itself. Plus, name me another double weapon that does 2d4/2d4 base damage.

 

[Scion]

Just have the character go weapon master (spiked chain) and flip around a few abilities to make it more what he wants It'd make things much better all around imo.

 

[MarauderX]

Kill Bill

Seen the movie Kill Bill? Then -

Spoiler

the bodyguard 17-year-old girl with the massive ball & chain would be a good example of a spike chain in action. It was great when she was swinging it around using her body to reel in the chain and send it back out again without needing to swing it around so much. And then she choked Uma with it - what's the feat for that?!?

I would think limiting a PC's use of the weapon may fall under Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization, as they both help out the PC to gain bonuses, and perhaps it also lets them use a weapon in confined spaces too. IMC I would let the spiked chain user threaten the normal areas around her, and if it is limited by walls it does not hinder the use of the weapon.

 

[The Souljourner]

Master of Chains aside, is there any reasonable explanation why someone with the Two-weapon fighting and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) feats shouldn't be able to switch between the using it for reach or for an extra attack?

Because it's already a really good weapon, and adding that to it would make it too good.


Now, Storm Raven, even assuming that making it into a double weapon isn't crappy, it's the only decent ability the prestige class gets. A straight fighter would have better BAB, more feats to make him cool, and eventually greater specialization to make him do even more damage.

After 12th level you can abandon the fighter class like everyone else and find another avenue to pursue. Maybe at that point I'd consider going into master of chains, just because it was less boring than 13th+ level fighter. But that's not saying much. A weapon master would probably be the better choice, as someone else mentioned. At least they get concrete benefits that you can actually use.

-The Souljourner

 

[The Souljourner]

Master of Chains aside, is there any reasonable explanation why someone with the Two-weapon fighting and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) feats shouldn't be able to switch between the using it for reach or for an extra attack?

Because it's already a really good weapon, and adding that to it would make it too good.


Now, Storm Raven, even assuming that making it into a double weapon isn't crappy, it's the only decent ability the prestige class gets. A straight fighter would have better BAB, more feats to make him cool, and eventually greater specialization to make him do even more damage.

After 12th level you can abandon the fighter class like everyone else and find another avenue to pursue. Maybe at that point I'd consider going into master of chains, just because it was less boring than 13th+ level fighter. But that's not saying much. A weapon master would probably be the better choice, as someone else mentioned. At least they get concrete benefits that you can actually use.

-The Souljourner

 

[Darklone]

Main problem I would see with a ftr4/rog3 who goes Master of Chains: After being able to use it as doubleweapon, he'd need to take fighter levels again for the improved trip, improved critical, GWF, ITWF and GTWF and perhaps TWD feats